Picture of mrs durff
Balance of power in groups
by mrs durff - Thursday, 16 October 2008, 08:27 PM
  It would seem that from the closed nature of membership in a group that the power inherent in that group can be abused. This happened notably with the Jim Jones group & the David Koresh grpup. The abuse of power is not seen in networks as networks are more widely distributed. While I may be a member of the group, Mennonites of the Franklin Conference, I may also be a member of the network, edubloggers around the world. Have I got this right?
Stephen Downes portrait
Re: Balance of power in groups
by Stephen Downes - Friday, 17 October 2008, 04:37 AM
  That sounds right to me, msdurff.
Picture of Ed Webb
Re: Balance of power in groups
by Ed Webb - Friday, 17 October 2008, 07:31 AM
  That seems to accurately reflect Stephen's view, as his comment affirms. I am concerned that if we accept this view uncritically, we will blind ourselves to exercises of power and/or authority within networks, believing them to be immune. I do not believe them to be so, at least, not so long as human beings are part of them.
Stephen Downes portrait
Re: Balance of power in groups
by Stephen Downes - Friday, 17 October 2008, 09:13 AM
  So how do you suppose power and control can be exercised in a network (particularly one that respects autonomy, diversity, openness and interactivity)?
Picture of Frances Bell
Re: Balance of power in groups
by Frances Bell - Friday, 17 October 2008, 09:50 AM
  So networks can have norms then?
Picture of Bye Has left the building
Re: Balance of power in groups
by Bye Has left the building - Friday, 17 October 2008, 09:39 AM
  Hi Ed and Stephen,

I agree with Ed the nature of power, authority and influence is more complicated than just being presents in groups and absent from networks. I also agree with Ed that one defence against tyranny is to use our critical faculties to question authority. This doesn't always work as in the tragic examples of groups with charismatic leaders given in the original post. I think these dangers are still presents in networked situations. If networks are perceived as being neutral then they can be used as justification for all kinds of abuse. We can see this in the current widely held belief in Neo-liberal economics (aka globalisation an economic network if ever there was one). This is despite globalisation clearly failing to manage the resources people need for a decent life. Neo-liberal economics assumes autonomy, diversity, openness and interactivity but the results are that by delegating power and authority to this network we have coursed a huge amount of human suffering.
Stephen Downes portrait
Re: Balance of power in groups
by Stephen Downes - Friday, 17 October 2008, 01:26 PM
  > Neo-liberal economics assumes autonomy, diversity, openness and interactivity but the results are that by delegating power and authority to this network we have coursed a huge amount of human suffering.

It assumes this, but it functions as a conseuqnce of denying this.

In the global marketplace, people are not in fact autonomous, for example. People can only interact economically if they are employed, and they can only be employed if they surrender their autonomy. Moreover, people can only be employed in their home country - neoliberalism doesn't have any provision for freedom of movement, etc. So what we are getting as a result is not a true global network, but rather, a global network in which a small number have a disproportionate amount of infleunce, and can actually commandeer other nodes - creating groups, not networks. This, in my view, is the cause of the suffering.

Picture of Bye Has left the building
Re: Balance of power in groups
by Bye Has left the building - Friday, 17 October 2008, 06:20 PM
  Hi Stephen,
OK so you are saying that the global economic network has been high jacked by various special interest groups who are controlled by a small number of individuals. Are you sure you want to go down that road? It appears to be heading for a conspiracy. You provided a very specific definition of what a network should be in theory. An alternative view is that many real networks such as our brain, the economy, the Web, or some educational systems behave as scale free networks. This make it possible for a few nodes to have undue influence over the whole of the network. This isn't because of some malfunctioning group of nodes but a consequence of the network itself. In some cases like the brain or the citation networks this is just what's needed. Maybe in other cases like the economy or politics this inevitably lead to disaster and we need to move away from organising these systems as scale free networks.
Picture of roy williams
Re: Power = [not] autonomy, so ?
by roy williams - Saturday, 18 October 2008, 06:51 PM
  Could we separate out some issues?

1. Is it not the case that if we respect: autonomy, diversity, openness and interactivity in any form or structure, its difficult to misuse power, but that's the case by definition?

if so ...

2. What is it particularly about networks that tends to enhance autonomy etc? Or is it the case that networks inevitably enhance autonomy etc?

3. The internet allows, and enhances all sorts of behaviours: grooming for child pornography and abuse, and for the grooming of disabled adults for terrorism, just for starters. Giving a child, or a disabled adult the autonomy to connect to anyone else on the Internet, within diversity, openness and interactivity is clearly a disaster.

4. So, can we distinguish:

a. Generic affordances of networks
b. Distortions and misuses of networks
c. The ethics and memes of positive social networks, and the value systems within which we make those judgement calls?
d. Appropriate ways of regulating networks - both socially and ethically appropriate, and network/CAST (complex adaptive systems theory) appropriate, assuming that regulation of complex systems is not the same as regulation of predictable systems (see Kurtz and Snowden).

Q: and how much of this can we apply to pornography (feral sexual relationships), feral Islamism, feral Capitalism, Learning, Education - or does each of these domains have its own particular characteristics and requirements?



Stephen Downes portrait
Re: Power = [not] autonomy, so ?
by Stephen Downes - Sunday, 19 October 2008, 12:12 PM
 

Posted to the blogs with this prefix: This is a few weeks ahead of when we will be looking at this in the course, but I wrote is as a response to a discussion post today and so I'll post it here now.

> Could we separate out some issues?

OK, this post raises a number of great points. Let me work through them.

> 1. Is it not the case that if we respect: autonomy, diversity, openness and interactivity in any form or structure, its difficult to misuse power, but that's the case by definition?

It is so by definition only if the definition of 'power' is something like 'the limitation of autonomy, diversity, etc...' And I'm not sure people woul want to define power that way. Usually power is defined not just as type of limiting behaviour, but also as a type of effective behaviour, that is, people wield their power to cause some sort of outcome.

Maybe it can be so by the definition of 'autonomy', 'diversity', etc? This isn't clear. Clearly not for diversity. The cells in a leaf or the atoms in a lump of lead are all the same, but not by virtue of some sort of power. So non-diversity does not entail power. Similarly with non-autonomy. A pilot fish follows a shark around, or a barnacle attaches to the hull of a ship and goes where the ship goes - this is non-autonomous behaviour, but not a power relationship.

Interestingly, I think that because we define 'power' as the capacity to some sort of intervention, we can't have 'power' without at least the possibility of autonomy, diversity, etc., if not the actual existence of them. The wielding of power is the violation of autonomy, diversity, etc., which means it is wielded in a situation where autonomy, diversity, etc., would normally be expected.

What, then, would make it difficult to wield power is not simply the existence of autonomy, diversity, etc., but rather, the degree to which they are entrenched - how stuubornly autonomous individual entities are by nature or temperament, how 'power-wielding' form of contact or interaction are available through the connections in a given network, the nature and inclination of given entities to wield power, etc., the number of connections (and therefore the extnt of power) that may be forged, etc.

This gives us a way of describing different types of networks in term of the degree to which power may be wielded in those networks. For example:

- person-to-person network: communication is exercised by physical contact, power can b wielded as the direct application of force leading to injury and possible fatality, versus
- electronic network: communication is exercised by electronic message, power can be wielded only by means of changing opinions through rhetoric or reason

Or:

- person-to-person network: communication only to people who are physically proximate, and therefore limited to a maximum audience of several thousand (tens of thousands with voice amplification), versus
- broadcast (radio or television): communication to people with receiver, limited only by the number of people that exist

> 2. What is it particularly about networks that tends to enhance autonomy etc? Or is it the case that networks inevitably enhance autonomy etc?

I don't think there's anything particularly about networks that tends t enhance autonomy, etc.

What it is about networks is that properties such as autonomy become important in a way they didn't before. This is why I distinguished networks from groups.

In groups, the properties of autonomy, diversity, etc. tend to be thought of as inhibiting the function of the group. Notice how the person who has a different point of view, or who has different objectives ("their own agenda") are depicted as obstacles to be overcome.

Nothing inherently in a network fosters autonomy, etc. and, depending on its make-up, a network can be used equally to promote or to eliminate autonomy. That is why it is possible for a network to effectively collapse into a group.

A reworking of this question would be, why are autonomy, etc., important? And I have tried to answer this in An Introduction to Connective Knowledge and elsewhere. Networks in which these values are promoted are robust, dynamic, stable, reliable - they are good knowledge engines. We can rely on them (the way we rely on scientific explanation and induction, as methodological paradigms, tweaked and adjusted over time).

Another way of stating the same thing is that networks in which autonomy, etc., are abridged are effectively dying. The resonation of connections from entity to entity will gradually cease. The network gradually becomes inert. If all entities are the same, there is nothing for them to communicate to one another. The network is dead - a dead lump of coal (100% carbon) rather than a living, breathing plant or animal.

> 3. The internet allows, and enhances all sorts of behaviours: grooming for child pornography and abuse, and for the grooming of disabled adults for terrorism, just for starters. Giving a child, or a disabled adult the autonomy to connect to anyone else on the Internet, within diversity, openness and interactivity is clearly a disaster.

I don't think any of this is an argument against either the internet or networks.

First of all, the internet does not increase the possibility of exposure to these elements. Child abuse was common before electronic media - maybe even more common. The grooming of average civilians for military purposes was also common; witness the Crusades.

Second, internet technologies tend to make these things less dangerous, not more dangerous. Child abusers and terrorists cannot use the internet to impose direct control the way they can in person. You cannot kidnap a child or harm someone's relatives online - you have to do it in person.

Third, the best defense against the ills of society is not sheltering, but exposure. It is the things children (and adults) have never seen before that really hurt them or kill them. Children who have been exposed have a better chance of survival, and if this exposure happens in a safe environment, such as the internet, so much the better.

Fourth, exposing children to the diverse nature of society shows them how rare some of these phenomena are. While broadcast television hammers into them the incorrect notion that violent crimes are prevalent and increasing, exposure to actual people shows the wide diversity of (mostly nice) people.

All of this is, in essence, an argument to the effect that network responses are a better remdy to the ills outlined in the comment than group responses. One of the most striking images I have of my visit to South Africa was of the walls that are everywhere. But nowhere were people less safe. Huddling together with people of your own kind, keeping those you fear at bay with fences and security and police, makes you less safe. You have the illusion of control - but it's only an illusion.

4. So, can we distinguish:

a. Generic affordances of networks

That's a good one. Autonomy, diversity, openness and connectedness are not properties o networks generically, they are properties of good networks.

I confess I don't have a systemic list of the generic affordances of networks. I would be inclined to put things like 'pattern creation' and 'emergent properties' as the generic affordances. But I would have to think about it.

b. Distortions and misuses of networks

This is where I would place non-autonomy, non-diversity, etc.

c. The ethics and memes of positive social networks, and the value systems within which we make those judgment calls?

This should be the subject of a much larger discussion. So I will only attempt a summary of my views here.

First, there is a significant distinction to be drawn between personal ethics and public ethics (analogous to the distinction between personal knowledge and public knowledge).

Personal ethics (aka personal morality) is an emergent property of your own self (your own brain, your own body, whatever). Personal morality is like a sensation - it is based in what we in this course have been calling the passions, it is a feeling for what is right and what is wrong. Though reason and argumentation can augment it, as Hume says, "reason is, and must be, the slave of the passions." In morality especially, if you don't feel that something is good, it can never be believed by you to be good.

The arguments we see in ethical texts - from Kant's description of the categorical imperative to Mill's utilitarianism to Sidgwick's methods - are, to my mind, rationalizations of the ethical impulses we feel as individuals. They are attempts to explain and justify the ethical values we already possess - and it is worth noting that such writings are singularly unconvincing to pople who do not feel the same way.

Such ethics can be taught, and a person's personal ethics are very often a reflection of their parents' ethics. But the manner of teaching is not to tell a child how to behave, but rather, to model and demonstrate ethical behaviour, which the child will practice, and reflect upon (forming ethical principles in his or her own mind as massive sets of connections between neurons formed via the principles of association).

Public ethics is the mechanism though which personal ethics are reflected in society as a whole. In essence, each person in a society is thought of as an ethical agent - an individualized sensor of ethical knowledge.

In terms of content, public ethics are whatever they are. What I man by that is that they are the emergent ethical properties that are produced though the interactions of a viable social network. We ma make various attempts to formulate them, but such attempts will be invariably limited by context and abstraction - they will be partial representations of a much richer phenomenon. The legal system is one such partial representation - it is an attempt to codify and prescribe punishments for serious ethical violations. Yet nobody would equate the legal system with the complete set of social ethics, an few people, if any, adopt the legal system as their own personal definition of ethics.

As such, and crucially, what constitutes ethical behaviour with respect to the creation of the social ethic is equivalent to whatever produces the best, most robust, richest, most reliable, and most reasonable social ethic. Behaviours that promote the development of such a social ethioc are ethical, behaviours that inhibit it are unethical.

Another way of putting the same point is what while personal ethics govern how we conduct our lives as individuals, social (or public) ethics govern how we interact with each other. Our motivations for acting in one way or another can and will be very different; what a public ethic amounts to is (roughly) the rules of engagement with each other - or, as Wittgenstein might say, the ethics game, or as computer scientist might say, protocols for a network infrastructure (the IETF and the W3C protocols are not standards, they are a set of protocols for ethical behaviour - that is, behaviour that best leads to the effective functioning of the internet, so far as we know).

What amounts to ethical behaviour, on such an account, is (very roughly) what amounts to reasonable or polite behaviour. In my own thinking, I identify different domains depnding on the different types of interaction. For example:

- principles of argumentation - ethical behaviour is rational behaviour - we interact using reason, rather than attempting to intimidate with force, we argue clearly and honestly, rather than attempting to misrepresent or fool through trickery. These principles align with qualitative knowledge.

- principles of explanation - we favour theories and mechanisms that are testable, that are robust, that apply in a wide range of disciplines; we reject explanations and mechanisms based on incomplete or misrepresentative information; we favour simplicity. These principles align with quantitative knowledge.

- principles of networking - we favour networks in which the entities are autonomous; we promote networks of diverse entities; we prefer networks that are open and undefined; and we prefer networks that produce knowledge as an emergent property, rather than mere repetition of some poperty or state of an individual entity. These principles align with connective knowledge.

d. Appropriate ways of regulating networks - both socially and ethically appropriate, and network/CAST (complex adaptive systems theory) appropriate, assuming that regulation of complex systems is not the same as regulation of predictable systems (see Kurtz and Snowden).

The connotation of 'regulation' is that it is the moderation of behaviour through a projection of power.

My reaction to that is that I have never seen an effective regulation through projection of power.

That is not to say that projections of power cannot prevent particular instances of prohibited behaviour. That is not even to say that the application of a significant amount of power cannot prevent most instances of a prohibited behaviour. Police states, whatever their faults, result in less crime. For a time.

If you convert your network into a perfect group, you will have achieved group identity, and hence, perfect regulation. At the cost of killing the network.

Mechanisms based on projections of power are temporary and ineffective, and that they will fail in the long run.

Ethical behaviour cannot be imposed. It can be enforced, but cannot be produced through the use of force.

Only behaviour that is freely chosen can become ethical behaviour, because only such behaviour can be relied upon even in the absence of constraint or force. Only such behaviour will survive the breakdown of social order. Only such behaviour will permit the rebuilding of a society in the event of disaster.

Such behaviour is not created by power, regulation or force, it is taught, and such behaviour is not taught by telling, it is taught by modeling and demonstrating ethical (read: 'reasonable') behaviour.

Regulations are a short-term mechanism intended to cope with a failure of teaching. Regulations are effective only for the perpetuation of a status quo while alternative teaching can effect long-term and substantial change.

All of that said - the practical question is, how should I, as an ethical actor, with an interest in promoting an ethical network, approach instances of unethical behaviour (defined for now as behaviour that would normally prompt calls for 'regulation').

And the answer, in a nutshell, is to make ethical behaviour a condition for network interaction. Ethical protocols are voluntary, and you can do something else if you want, but nobody will talk to you if you do not behave ethically.

This is something you cannot impose - you cannot effectively isolate a person from a network, because it has no boundaries. However, individual entities can refuse to connect with non-compliant entities. And this refusal to connect is something that can be modeled (and, more importantly, the conditions under which non-connection occurs) can be modeled.

That said, it should be understood that these are two gradations, not on-off absolutes. A person's behaviour can be more or less reasonable (as defined above) and a response to that behaviour can be more or less exclusionary. There is room for moderation of response, and moderation of response is encouraged. The network principle "be generous in what you accept, strict in what you send out" applies here: it is better to encourage reasonableness by demonstrating it, but the effectiveness of demonstrating it exists only if communications are undertaken, at least some times, with people who are more or less unreasonable.

(I use the word 'people' but I actually intend to refer to 'entities' more generally.)

Picture of Ken Anderson
Re: Power = [not] autonomy, so ?
by Ken Anderson - Sunday, 19 October 2008, 01:41 PM
 

>First of all, the internet does not increase the possibility of exposure to these elements. Child abuse was common before electronic media - maybe even more common

On what basis do you make this statement?  Particularly the last bit?

>Second, internet technologies tend to make these things less dangerous, not more dangerous. Child abusers and terrorists cannot use the internet to impose direct control the way they can in person. You cannot kidnap a child or harm someone's relatives online - you have to do it in person

Are you aware that the 'in person' meeting takes place after the internet meeting?

>And the answer, in a nutshell, is to make ethical behaviour a condition for network interaction...Ethical protocols are voluntary, and you can do something else if you want, but nobody will talk to you if you do not behave ethically. This is something you cannot impose - you cannot effectively isolate a person from a network, because it has no boundaries. However, individual entities can refuse to connect with non-compliant entities. And this refusal to connect is something that can be modeled (and, more importantly, the conditions under which non-connection occurs) can be modeled.

Hmmm. Conditioning + Negative punishment.  Where have I heard this before?

>it is better to encourage reasonableness by demonstrating it, but the effectiveness of demonstrating it exists only if communications are undertaken, at least some times, with people who are more or less unreasonable.

Question: Where will we get this concept of reasonableness from?  Folk psychology, as a belief?  Oh darn, we eliminated that.

Picture of Jon Kruithof
Re: Power = [not] autonomy, so ?
by Jon Kruithof - Sunday, 19 October 2008, 02:00 PM
 

>First of all, the internet does not increase the possibility of exposure to these elements. Child abuse was common before electronic media - maybe even more common

On what basis do you make this statement?  Particularly the last bit?

Look up NIS studies, they show the growth of child abuse in the US. The last NIS study I could find was through here: http://www.yesican.org/stats.html, and that dates pre-internet widespread usage. I wouldn't go so far as to say that child (I assume you're talking about sexual) abuse was more common; the culture of reporting child abuse has changed significantly in the last decade, I would say that it was at least as common as today. 

Picture of Ken Anderson
Re: Power = [not] autonomy, so ?
by Ken Anderson - Sunday, 19 October 2008, 03:17 PM
 

@Jon Kruitoff  19-10-08 11:00

Thanks Jon for the link.  I was thinking more about Roy's reference to grooming for pornography than abuse.

Picture of Bye Has left the building
Re: Power = [not] autonomy, so ?
by Bye Has left the building - Sunday, 19 October 2008, 04:59 PM
  Hi Ken,

I thought you were taking the week off wink
Picture of roy williams
Re: Power = [not] autonomy, so ?
by roy williams - Monday, 20 October 2008, 05:58 PM
  Ken, I share your concerns. I agree with Stephen's view over the long term, but I want to know what to do in the meantime.

The early years of new technologies are the 'early adopters' years, by definition. And the people who are most hungry for new technologies are not necessarily 'nice' - the 'free' market ensures that.

It takes time for new social memes to emerge, consolidate, get recognised, and respect, and the digital klutzes, which include many of the 'leaders' in society often dont understand, and dont want to understand the new technologies. In the long term this problem is 'self-correcting' as the older generation will move on to a new community in the sky, but until then?
Picture of Bye Has left the building
Re: Power = [not] autonomy, so ?
by Bye Has left the building - Sunday, 19 October 2008, 05:14 PM
  Hi Stephen,

As Ken has pointed out this sounds very much like classical behaviourism. In light of resent research showing that social exclusion causes people the same kind of pain as physical punishment dose. I think it is a terrible way to treat people. I would have thought that If a commitment has been made to an open course then everyone who makes the effort to engage should be encourage and supported in their investigations. If this isn't possible then the course shouldn't be offered as being open. Catherine has already provide a more ethical solution for dealing with how everyone should behave. By having a code of conduct (justified by some kind of well established external example) it is possible to make the rules of engagement explicit so that everyone knows what is expected.
Stephen Downes portrait
Re: Power = [not] autonomy, so ?
by Stephen Downes - Sunday, 19 October 2008, 06:22 PM
  > Catherine has already provide a more ethical solution for dealing with how everyone should behave.

That's pretty funny.




Picture of Catherine  Fitzpatrick
Re: Power = [not] autonomy, so ?
by Catherine Fitzpatrick - Sunday, 19 October 2008, 10:54 PM
  Um, I haven't called for any code of conduct. I don't know where that's coming from. I've called for the rule of law, and applying constitutional law, not internal TOS/code of conduct type rules that are inevitably unfair, inevitably skewed to the coders and the mods. I've called for having forums stick to RL constitutional law, like "The First Amendment" or even "Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights".

Look at the rules for the forums on "The Atlantic" -- very simple -- not detailed, just the basics, "no incitement of violence, racism, libel".

Don't blink, you might miss my blimp, Stephen.
Picture of Bye Has left the building
Re: Power = [not] autonomy, so ?
by Bye Has left the building - Monday, 20 October 2008, 11:24 AM
  Hi Catherine,

I do apologise for misrepresenting your view point (mild English sarcasm ;-p ). Thanks for your point of clarification. You'd made it clear in your original postings in Trolling for Trolls I'd just not picked it up. I now have a much clearer understanding of the distinction between a code of conduct and the rule of law. I had a look at The Atlantic forum rules and conditions. I think they must be a new version. They appear fine for The Atlantic's proprietary form but are rather arbitrary and restrictive for an open forum for example "Posts which are determined, solely under authority of The Atlantic Monthly and third parties employed or directed by it, to be otherwise objectionable." Do you have a link to the original rules or some other examples?
I'd be interested in your thoughts on using the rule of law in other areas of online learning. Do you think there is a place for learning contracts between tutors and students. A simple document that states what the tutors or institution are offering and what is expected from the student in return for these services. Maybe in an open course this might be more of a covenant that all participants make.
Picture of Bradley Shoebottom
Re: Power = [not] autonomy, so ?
by Bradley Shoebottom - Monday, 20 October 2008, 05:50 PM
 

Tim,

This is the Royal Military College advice on Discussion Forums:

Discussion Forum: Some Rules to Follow

The discussion forum, which can be accessed from the homepage by clicking the “Discussions”

link located on the course Navbar, will also be used for more informal discussion between

students on the course content and the

required assignments. To ensure the smooth

and successful flow of the discussion forum, all

students must respect certain rules of

communication. There are a number of

recognized guidelines for online discussion –

otherwise known as “netiquette” – and the main

points are listed below:

sexist expressions.

Avoid submitting hostile or sarcastic comments, and never use intolerant, racist, or

“thank you for the suggestion.” Even if you disagree with someone’s idea, thanking him

or her for actively engaging with your comments generates a respectful and productive

discussion forum. Brief comments such as “I agree,” however, do not constitute a

significant contribution to discussion.

When responding to others online, use encouraging phrases such as “good idea” and

another’s expressed opinion, begin your rebuttal by pointing out the positive aspects of

his or her contribution, and then follow these comments in a manner in which your

fellow participant will not feel excluded. For example: “Eric, I think your ideas on the

role of doctrine in the CF are interesting; have you considered the following...”The use

of humour is not recommended; often, comments that are humourous in person appear

derisive or sarcastic in print. To avoid these misplaced remarks, insert symbols such as

a smiley face

which say to the reader, “I’m joking.”

T

O LEARN MORE

See Linda Harasim, Starr Roxanne Hiltz, Lucio

Teles and Murray Turoff,

Field Guide to Teaching and Learning Online

Cambridge (Mass.): The MIT Press, 1997.

Learning Networks. A.
Never mock or belittle the contribution of another participant. If you disagree with?, or parenthetical remarks such as (ha ha!) or “lol” (laugh out loud),
Picture of Catherine  Fitzpatrick
Re: Power = [not] autonomy, so ?
by Catherine Fitzpatrick - Wednesday, 22 October 2008, 11:45 AM
  No, they aren't any "new version" and I have absolutely no problem with a proprietary forum saying they will remove posts at their sole discretion. That's what any forum will have, and what's good is that they are explicit about it. The rest of their rules are very simple, and a model of simplicity.

In fact, your vaunted "open, opensource blah blah" forums are *exactly the same if not worse* because they are not explicit about it. There are always some cadres to come along and take over and browbeat others and issue directives in the name of "thecommunity". I'd much rather have this be frank and explicit from an actual proprietary company than be fake and illegitimate from Bolshevik takeovers of fake "open" systems.

No, I don't think there should be anything like a "learning contract". I do not favour "rights and responsibilities" documents as they are always skewed. This approach of making some detailed "covenant" that has to lay out explicitly many things better negotiated on demand seems to be a "civil law" rather than "common law" approach. I don't see the need for it and don't see that it does anything but create untenable situations.
Picture of Bradley Shoebottom
Re: Power = [not] autonomy, so ?
by Bradley Shoebottom - Sunday, 19 October 2008, 06:36 PM
 

Tim,

Can you point to Catherine's post where she outlines the "ethincal solution for dealing with how everyone should behave?"

I have found we have gone around in circles on this and didn't get it when Stephen has says its funny (except that I know Catherine and Stpehen fundamentally disagree). Unless I am 100% "in" on the forum debates, I lose the context of his remark. There has been so much "traffic" in this course that I can't recall where a particular person posted something, hence, I have lost the context of both of your comments. Can you point to Catherine's solution?

Picture of ailsa haxell
Re: Power = [not] autonomy, so ?
by ailsa haxell - Sunday, 19 October 2008, 08:00 PM
  Am interested in the defining of ethics in a narrow paradigm of choice (Catherine talks of this) however the logic of care could also be considered.
Might also expand the argument re reason to be more inclusive of emotional aspects. I havent thought this through enough, however sometimes learning has been known to happen through the processes of connecting smile
and through the process of writing even (or at least that reflects some of my own experiences).
I have been reading Annemarie Mol's (2008) The logic of care.
I am interested in her positioning of choice on one axis as an individual concern, but that its also possible to position care on an axis with greater regard to the collective condition.
Seems to me, care might be explored as usefully as choice seems to be, at least with regard to any discussions concerning how we might treat each other, ethically.

Picture of Bye Has left the building
Re: Power = [not] autonomy, so ?
by Bye Has left the building - Sunday, 19 October 2008, 08:07 PM
  Hi Bradley and Stephen,

Catherine has outlines a cogent procedure for establishing a rule of law (as apose to rule by law) in forums and potential for the whole of an open course. This is outlined in the first few of Catherine's posts in the Trolling for Trolls thread. She discuses some of the pitfalls of this approach and some possible solutions. I have personal used something similar in my own practice. I've drawn up codes of conduct for learners on my courses. This has outline what is expected of the participants and what they can expect form the course. It also included a procedure for third party conflict resolution in case of any disagreements. I can't say how effective this has been as I've never had to enforce the code. In an open learning environment such laws might be negotiated by all those concerned. This process would need to take on board Catherine's points about avoiding making arbitrary laws that can later be used to deliberately exclude specific individuals.
Picture of Bradley Shoebottom
Re: Power = [not] autonomy, so ?
by Bradley Shoebottom - Sunday, 19 October 2008, 09:30 PM
 

Tim,

I appreciate the link back to Catherine's posts. The Trolling for Troll posts I think numerbd in the 100s!

I have never developed a code of ethics although the RoyalMilitary College (my employer has one). Since my students are military members, our discussion forums tend to be the epitomy of politeness. However, private email traffic to me tends to be a lot more "open".

Stephen Downes portrait
Re: Power = [not] autonomy, so ?
by Stephen Downes - Monday, 20 October 2008, 09:34 AM
  Please let me restate the argument I have offered against codes of conduct.

1. A code of conduct is of little or no use for a person who is already ethically inclined. The stipulation of rules or principles will be, except for unusual cases, the ethic followed by the person already. Indeed, the rules will be somewhat more narrow than the description of ethical behaviour observed by the person. Call this the Hegel provision (because it roughly resembles that outlined in the Phenomenology of Right).

2. A code of conduct will provide shelter in the loopholes for an unethical person. Because the meaning of words will always be precise, and because varying interpretations can allow conduct not envisioned or originally intended to be allowed, the unethical can use a code of ethics to sanctify what would be otherwise unethical acts. Call this the Hegel loophole.

Picture of Catherine  Fitzpatrick
Re: Power = [not] autonomy, so ?
by Catherine Fitzpatrick - Wednesday, 22 October 2008, 11:47 AM
  Yeah, so that's why you go ahead and make semi-official codes of conduct anyway by saying "everybody go to the moderated blogs".
Picture of Ed Webb
Re: Power = [not] autonomy, so ?
by Ed Webb - Monday, 20 October 2008, 08:46 AM
  Only behaviour that is freely chosen can become ethical behaviour, because only such behaviour can be relied upon even in the absence of constraint or force.

Actually, conditioned behaviour can be reasonably reliable, even absent constraint or force. That's why, though power may ultimately come from the barrel of a gun (says Mao), states don't need a soldier on every corner to maintain order. The habit of consent can be manufactured, and is a lot cheaper to sustain than direct force. Power in a network can come from a high number of connections - a node with that attribute has authority, presumably derived from having something of value to offer - but also from temporal priority (which can also yield high numbers of connections): the pioneers set the rules/tone/norms. Latecomers (insurgents?) to a network are relatively disempowered by their arriviste status. Thus even open, 'good' networks can be prone to stagnation, and power can certainly be at work in them, even if its workings are less transparent than in more obviously hierarchical groups.

Discuss, if you feel like so inclined.
Stephen Downes portrait
Re: Power = [not] autonomy, so ?
by Stephen Downes - Monday, 20 October 2008, 09:25 AM
  > Actually, conditioned behaviour can be reasonably reliable, even absent constraint or force....

Well, I did say ethical behaviour can be learned, and conditioning is a form of learning, so we should not be surprised that ethical behaviour can be produced as a result of conditioning.

The thing with conditioning is that it will erode over time without continual reinforcement. Not a lot, necessarily, and not consistently, but enough so that a regime of ethics based on conditioning is not as reliable as one based on freely chosen behaviour.

Secondly...

> the pioneers set the rules/tone/norms...

Indeed, certain types of networks have this attribute. This can be mitigated in a number of ways:

- the amount of power available over a node can be limited (many nodes times miniscule power results in a reasonably limited power)
- the plasticity of the network can be increased - that is, entities gain and lose connections over time, resulting in a limitation of the power vested in the earlier nodes

In general, I have taken the position that limiting power is a good thing. This is based on the observation that many of our existing networks are as you have described: static, and vesting disproportionate power in their progenitors, for no good reason other than chance.

That said, it needs to be recognized that it is necessary to vest some power in networks. A network that has no communicative force cannot be interactive. It must be possible for one entity to cause an effect in another entity. So power, per se, isn't a bad thing - it is the excess of power (to the point that it impairs the network's ability to function, by impairing autonomy, diversity, etc.)







Picture of Ed Webb
Re: Power = [not] autonomy, so ?
by Ed Webb - Monday, 20 October 2008, 09:41 AM
  Now I think we are coming closer to a consensus (a Webb-Downes consensus, that is - can't speak for the other thousands of axes of connection):

1. Power can and does exist in networks, and should be accounted for in theories of connectivism;

2. Power is not necessarily harmful to the productivity of a network, unless disproportionally concentrated, and this can be mitigated by increasing the size (number of nodes) and plasticity of the network [and other means? not sure this exhausts our prophylactic toolkit].

One quite striking aspect of your post is how much time matters, as it did in mine - in eroding conditioning, absent maintenance; in shifting power or consolidating it on the basis of longevity of nodal activity. Have we done enough in our discussions in this course to explore the temporal dimensions of networks?
Picture of roy williams
Re: Power = [not] autonomy, so ?
by roy williams - Monday, 20 October 2008, 05:33 PM
  Ed, in principle yes. Power is accumulative, and quantitative. But that's a bit mechanistic, no?

Selective networks (Cetina's micro-global structures of terror and finance) are small, often very small, and their asymmetry is built on what is either a contradiction or a paradox: tiny (numerically) but global (spatially and 24/7) networks, within a frictionless digital network, provided courtesy of the US defence industry's innovative Internet.

As the spider said: "the thinner you spin your web, the harder it is for anyone to see it" And a super-thin web is 'visually frictionless', or 'transparent' which comes to the same thing. [Excuse the mashed metaphors, but its the way I 'see' it]. Or to put it another way, its not great big limousines that cruise the internet super-highway, but byte sized packet switched fragments.
Picture of roy williams
Re: Power = [not] autonomy, so ?
by roy williams - Monday, 20 October 2008, 05:15 PM
  A feast for thought Stephen. Thanks.

So, a few thoughts on ...

1. Power
Power is "that which effects behaviour (in other people and places)", sure. In which case language is the prime medium of power, or the projection of effective behaviour (followed by guns, money, Foucault's gaze, etc to taste).
That could be negative or positive.

2. Fishes
Pilot fishes are non-autonomous. OK, then autonomy seems to include self-organising as well as self-conscious, which in turn leads to personal integrity, which is then self-maintained and self-reproduced. [At which stage the post-modernist in me starts to get a bit doubtful about all these selves (in the singular), but maybe that's just my problem].

3. Knowledge Engines
Sure, networks are in principle fine knowledge engines, because they are built on inter-texts and consensus, rather than individual opinions, and are also empirical?

4. Ecologies = Networks?
My approach to networks, and complexity depends far more on biology, ecology and evolution than physics. If networks dissipate and die (nothing left to communicate), then complex adaptive behaviour is a characteristic of all networks, no? This is where the boundary: self-organising &/or self-reproducing is critical. Self-reproducing is necessarily live, self-organising apparently not.

5. Restructuring public and private spaces
To go back to a previous discussion, on network revolutions (or not) ...
The danger of Internet grooming - I suppose it could be as invidious as face-2-face grooming. However, I think the social memes (cf morals and ethics???) that enhance or dampen feral grooming are situated within core social macro-memes, like the delineation of public and private space. And I think mobile phones and the internet create new affordances which, during the first phase of their use, destroy old delineations of public/ private space, and create new ones.

E.g. it took about 5 years for banks to ban all mobile phone use by the public inside banks. If banks (as in the buildings) are to be secure safe places you can do finance in, a blanket ban on the use of mobile phones is the new required meme. (That's a back door for 'regulation', I know, but I dont apologise for it). On the other hand, I agree that the South African security ghettos are less safe, so that's a counterproductive meme, because it's unsustainable, and if anything reinforces the negative feedback of fear and prejudice.

6. Generic affordances of neworks
Sustainable adaptive behaviour -or is that only 'good' ones?

7. Regulation
At institutional level, regulation is the language game. The problem could be that the heritage, the default version of 'regulation' is firmly within command and control. THe question is whether there is a different form (dare I say paradigm) of regulation, which is based on complexity instead, and in which command and control are replaced by probing, monitoring, accentuating and dampening, see Snowden's approach, which doesnt apply either of these forms of intervention across the board - it depends on the nature of the problem and the context.


Picture of Pat Parslow
Re: Power = [not] autonomy, so ?
by Pat Parslow - Tuesday, 21 October 2008, 02:16 AM
  "In which case language is the prime medium of power, or the projection of effective behaviour (followed by guns, money, Foucault's gaze, etc to taste).
That could be negative or positive."

I believe smell is more evocative than language isn't it? And I think visual stimuli carry more power than language unless the 'target' is in a suggestable state through something like hypnosis.

"OK, then autonomy seems to include self-organising as well as self-conscious, which in turn leads to personal integrity, which is then self-maintained and self-reproduced."

The self-maintenance and self-reproduction do not need to be conscious, and indeed could be powered by social contact, surely? Whilst they have effect at the level of the individual, I do not think they need to be actually sef-maintained (etc.)

With regard to regulation and control - regulation (linguistcally encoded) has always been a poor second to a reactive, responsive and preferably proactive 'control' mechanism. But the desire for consistency, defence from litigation and increasing size of 'units of control' in organisations have tended to make the written regulation necessary. But as Stephen mentioned, where there is a written rule, there is (almost certainly) a loop hole. And in education, we are increasingly seeing students who spend more effort finding the loopholes than it would have taken to do the work.

Once this becomes commonplace, I guess you are left with either writing extremely well defined rules, ones which are so flexible there is no point in looking for loopholes (but which then either become toothless or always subject to interpretation by some 'authority') or find a way of going back to a form of control based on local, fast, feedback.




Picture of roy williams
Re: Power = [not] autonomy, so ?
by roy williams - Tuesday, 21 October 2008, 04:42 PM
  Pat, ah, but you can cut so finely with language. Smell is powerful, but blunt. Ditto visuals, which are rich but semantically unstable (or polysemic if you must).

[Aside: in the research we are doing into how people make sense of their learning
and identity, we started with 'nested' (audio) narratives, and are moving on rapidly
to multi-media, multi-mode interactions, precisely to allow for the 'fine cut', the
'blunt-rich' and the 'polysemic-rich' - next stop is kinesthetic, using touch tables as
well].

Interesting idea:
>self-maintained and self-reproduced do not need to be conscious

I'm trying to get a grip on this autonomy thing (and the idea of non-autonomous behaviour, as in parasitic and symbiotic - see barnacles and pilot fish earlier), and trying to find the border line between H. Sapiens and 'the rest'. I think my bottom line would be: OK, not necessarily conscious, but surely able to be conscious, in principle (i.e. linguistically able).

Q: does autonomy necessarily include language - can 'lower' primates be autonomous, I suppose they can, no? Where's the border line -is there a border line? And if language is a necessity, then it must include consciousness - although not full-on 24/7 'reflective-critical-thinking' HEA stuff.

Regulation: couldnt agree more. I do agree with Snowden that there are contexts and problems which are 'complicated' which are amenable to command and control 'regulation', but I also agree with Snowden that there are many contexts (most, probably) in which this kind of regualtion doesnt apply, for the reasons you mention. In these contexts (complex ones) we still need to intervene, but in a manner consistent with CAST - starting with 'define the negative, disallowed events and behaviour, but dont define the positive outcomes - leave those open to emerge' - that's the shortest version I have of 'managing complexity', or managing CANs - complex adaptive networks.





Picture of Pat Parslow
Re: Power = [not] autonomy, so ?
by Pat Parslow - Tuesday, 21 October 2008, 05:36 PM
  Hmmm, well Roy, I would say language is so often mis-interpreted that I cannot really agree that in general use it has more power than the others. There is a smell of fresh grass mingled with a certain someone's perfume which moves me more, and describe a scene to me better, than words ever could. On the other hand, I would say that the power of these stimuli tends to be even more context dependant than linguistic ones.

With the linguistic power/consciousness I doubt you will ever be able to define a line. Prairie marmots have a rather advanced language, I believe, and ants communicate not only through pheronomes but through sound (well, vibrations) - many animal species have communicative skills we can only start to investigate (mainly through millenia of human-centric thinking).

I am not sure whether autonomy necessarily includes language. I think it must need an internal reasoning system, but I cannot see why this needs to fall in to the category of language - 'gut feeling' would seem to me to be able to do the job. But then I am not sure I am necessarily interpreting 'autonomy' the same way - to me, the Pilot fish is autonomous, it just has a requirement to stay in its niche habitat (which is the shark) - to suggest it isn't autonomous is much the same, in my opinion, as saying that someone who lives and works in the same area and fulfill all their needs without travelling miles away is not autonomous. All living things depend on something else to some degree - that they 'choose' to stay close to it (survival instinct) does not, I think, mean they are necessarily not autonomous. Neither does such a lack of 'autonomy' mean that all the members of a network are the same - I can, in theory, obtain all the information I need from my network (if it is well formed) and should not need to change position or act in a way that separates me from the 'crowd' (unless perhaps, a member of my network dies?) - but in order for this to be the case there needs to be diversity in the network. If there is insufficient diversity, then autonomy is necessary.

However, I would argue that for the mental well being of people in networks they need a degree of autonomy. If they desire autonomy and it is denied through the abuse of a power relationship, they are unlikely to thrive.

I am not even sure that language necessitates consciousness. I am pretty sure I can write software agents which develop language and can negotiate meaning without any real hint of consciousness there. Though, perhaps if enough people want to define that as a sufficient criterion for consciousness to exist it will make my PhD much easier...
Picture of roy williams
Re: Suicide = autonomy, no ?
by roy williams - Wednesday, 22 October 2008, 04:40 PM
  Pat, fascinating.

Maybe "autonomous" is defined as a line somewhere along along the spectrum: hard-wired/ soft-wired/ wet-wired: your pilot fish is pretty hard-wired. To cut to the chase: maybe suicide is the critical difference: you've got to be pretty re-programmable, and self-reprogrammable to commit suicide, no?

Now that's a challenge perhaps, for ants (a la Godel, Escher, Bach) and for your software agents - can you write a suicide programme for them, and in what sense would 'they' commit suicide, even if you could do so? Or would you be commiting suicide through them as proxies? Its a bit macabre as a thought experiment, but it did strike me as a good ground for 'proof'.


Picture of Pat Parslow
Re: Suicide = autonomy, no ?
by Pat Parslow - Wednesday, 22 October 2008, 05:15 PM
  Well, now, there is a topic close to my heart, but probably even further removed from learning theories than many of the other things we discuss!

When thinking about the possibility of conscious machine agents, I, personally, think that they should be given the opportunity to be able to terminate themselves. I actually believe it would be unethical to not provide this affordance because if the design were to be poor but still adequate to give them consciousness, but they had a miserable existence, it would be inhumane to force them to continue to exist.

I don't know what the suicide incidence for non-human animals is, to be honest. I suspect that I would consider any animal which chose to end its own life as being autonomous and probably conscious. But then there is the problem of those which may be driven to it in an entirely behaviourist way - and presumably there would need to be some test of them having made an informed decision. If a software agent accidentally invoked its self-destruct mechanism without 'intent' I don't suppose I would consider that to be suicide. It all gets rather complicated, doesn't it?
Picture of roy williams
Re: Suicide = autonomy, no ?
by roy williams - Thursday, 23 October 2008, 03:50 AM
  Indeed, that is tangenital, but I think that the best 'proofs' are the ones that define where the border lines are, or the places where the semantic topographies drop off the 3D conceptual shelf.

Its only when you follow the tangent, and see how far out it goes that you know what you're dealing with, no?

You're really pushing the envelope with machine agent ethics! I cant quite decide if you're being serious/ hypothetical/ humorous (jokes are the next best way to 'proof' ideas].
Picture of Pat Parslow
Re: Suicide = autonomy, no ?
by Pat Parslow - Thursday, 23 October 2008, 04:58 AM
  Oh I agree about tangential issues being useful (I mentioned it more as a caveat for readers who didn't want to get sidetracked too much)

Um, Serious is the option you are looking for. If people are to 'play God' as some would have it, and seek to make conscious machines, then I believe we are obliged to examine the ethical considerations before getting too far down the path. However, as long as people explore those issues, I don't mind whether they consider them as purely hypothetical or as humorous.
Picture of Bye Has left the building
Re: Power = [not] autonomy, so ?
by Bye Has left the building - Thursday, 23 October 2008, 10:45 AM
 

Grand Master Turing once dreamed that he was a machine. When he awoke he exclaimed:

"I don't know whether I am Turing dreaming that I am a machine, or a machine dreaming that I am Turing!"
from The Tao of Programing ;-p
Picture of Catherine  Fitzpatrick
Re: Power = [not] autonomy, so ?
by Catherine Fitzpatrick - Wednesday, 22 October 2008, 12:01 PM
  I'm not surprised that you are showing the typical hardcore hard leftist geek's disdain for two premises: a) that child abuse on the Internet is serious and more widespread than before the Internet b) that it is a real crime even as simulation because it desensitizes and justifies the act. Of course these crimes are made worse by the Internet because they spread to more people -- the idea that before any Internet, the same crimes went on isn't any excuse or justification for it, and there are absolutely no grounds for claiming child abuse was "worse" or "more widespread" before the Internet as the medium simply didn't reach as many people, and more people being reached, and seeing the notions made explicit, had a terrible effect. But I don't at all expect that any kind of logical or moral argument will be persuasive with you in this regard, as to even make these kinds of false claims reveals deep-seated religious beliefs that simply can't be undone.

Networks do not make for autonomy. They make for conformity. That ought to be obvious. If it isn't, again, it's a religious doctrine problem. I think common sense (which of course you repudiate) will show that the action upon egos on the Internet of interacting with other people in networks make them absorb memes, sometimes unconsciously, and makes them conform their behaviour, adopt even the same langage patterns, and accept certain ideas as "what everybody thinks". You have only to see a forum like sluniverse.com with Obama voters harassing, ridiculing, and lying about the beliefs of McCain supporters to see how that works.

Personal morality based on traditions, written and oral, isn't a "sensation".

There are a lot of other very bad ideas in this post -- it will take some time to counter them. But basically, they all reveal a lack, and a disbelief in, and a scorn of, basic premises that serve to keep human institutions democratic:

o separation of powers -- by having powers of executive, legislative, judicial actions actually separate, with checks and balances, you don't get the problems of "groups and networks" which are just sheer executive powers, usually run by a few strong personalities, or sheer judicial arbitrariness, with something like "mods" who run a forums with no legislative oversight from parliamentary like structures

o delegation of powers -- a problem of many websites/forums/worlds/communities is that the all-powerful leaders simply do not know how to, or care to, trust and delegate powers fairly

o representative democracy -- again, something scorned in the Geek Religion as "corrupt" when in fact it's exactly what helps fight the inherent corruption of the "group and network" biases because it has mechanisms of accountability

o the rule of law -- something higher and above everyone, to which they are bound, so that you do not have one arbitrary ruler

In the decline of the Bush Administration, or the ascendancy of the Putin Administration, you can see all these principles trampled, yet that doesn't make them any less real or even viable with determined civic engagement.


Picture of roy williams
Re: Power = [not] autonomy, so ?
by roy williams - Thursday, 23 October 2008, 04:29 AM
  Indeed. The Internet child porn issue is not a quantitative issue - its not a matter of more or less abuse - child abuse is an absolute.

The ethical and social issue is, precisely, a connectivist one: what new affordances does the Internet offer abusers to penetrate private space? (Sorry for the graphic metaphor, but it serves to concentrates the mind). The answer: orders of magnitude more. We're talking log scales here, not linear numerical scales.

Institutional changes happen when the memes and structures that define public and private space, family and stranger space, and adult and child space get turned upside down, and the connectivity goes 'frictionless' (or the 'transaction cost' tends to zero - and yes, they are 'transactions', that's the horror of it).

The issue is a logarithmic, boundary and gate keeper issue, and an issue of re-assembling, re-claiming, and re-establishing safe space and 'child space' . See Williams Blake for details: the issues haven't changed, the technologies have. This part of the Internet and connectivity is scary.

The challenge is to re-enforce (yes, both senses will do, nicely) new, appropriate, and (where possible) complex-adaptive social memes. But don't hold your breath, it'll take a while.


Picture of Frances Bell
Re: Power = [not] autonomy, so ?
by Frances Bell - Friday, 24 October 2008, 02:16 AM
  danah boyd has spoken about the issue of youth vulnerability on the Internet on several occasions - but this post links to a very interesting Internet Caucus panel with a lot of evidence (quant and qual) http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/05/11/just_the_facts.html

She is not, I think, saying that the young are not vulnerable to predators but more that it is those young people who are already troubled and vulnerable in real life who are also vulnerable on the Internet. The moral panic about the Internet can be a distraction from more pervasive issues to do with young people and their safety. That's not to say that young people cannot be victims. I remember well the press indignation about pornography on the Internet that focused much more on viewers of pornographic images rather than on the victims of real life abuse that generated those images (exacerbated by the endless republication of the images).

IMHO, the important issues are:
  • society's support for vulnerable young people (in the lives they live on- and off-line) when they are in need or in crisis
  • the inclusion of digital literacy skills in informal and formal education for all
danah boyd's work is really interesting - for example, she reminds us that teens do not regard the home as a private space, and that they (less and less) create 'private' spaces in public e.g. parks and (more and more) in networked publics e.g. MySpace.

Picture of Frances Bell
Re: Power = [not] autonomy, so ?
by Frances Bell - Friday, 24 October 2008, 08:59 AM
  Addendum on Digital Literacy in this blog post plus lots of comments http://fraser.typepad.com/socialtech/2008/10/notes-towards-d.html
Picture of roy williams
Re: Power = [not] autonomy, so ?
by roy williams - Friday, 24 October 2008, 07:22 PM
  Thanks for the link Francis. Its a really good and interesting resource, and takes the debate back to the empirical evidence on abuse, and the relationship between off-line and on-line abuse.

Similarly the ideas on public and private space. There are no simple answers, but there are important emergent trends, like the ones you point out here, that must inform the way we respond to the people who are involved, first, within the changing realities of the technological affordances, second. 'Magnification', which one of the panel comments on can be positive or negative (see scalability), and magnification has been a prominent part of mass media since Gutenberg.

And I suppose media have also always afforded new private spaces - reading puts you in a different 'private' space too. The difference is, your connection to the author is not under your (or their control), if it is networked and 'live' - synchronous or asynch. So the new private spaces are not 'your' (singular) private spaces, but your (plural) private spaces.

The intimacy of private spaces (from telephone calls onwards) has always been beguiling, and the intimacy of sharing private spaces with strangers requires new awareness and social memes. Connected private spaces (1-2-1) and networked private spaces are a phase change apart, no? It's playing in a different league



Picture of Jorge Crom
Re: Balance of power in groups
by Jorge Crom - Monday, 20 October 2008, 08:16 AM
 

Tim:

Scale free networks develope via preferential attachment. This leads to give the node with most links most of the new links. The rich gets richer. Sometimes is very difficult to change this dynamic.

Picture of roy williams
Re: Balance of power in groups
by roy williams - Monday, 20 October 2008, 05:19 PM
  Jorge, touche!
Picture of Bye Has left the building
Re: Balance of power in groups
by Bye Has left the building - Tuesday, 21 October 2008, 11:26 AM
  Hi Jorge,

I agree with you, history shows us that it is very difficult or even impossible to achieve an equitable system. I still think we should attempt to create such a system. This is even though it might be unclear, exactly what it will be or whether its possible. It can be argued that Institutional education tends to help replicate what ever the current system of cultural, economic and political power might be. I would like to think that it is possible to develop a pedagogy that could transform these systems into something more equitable. Maybe that's the problem pedagogy implies leading and if we are entering uncharted waters then maybe we need different methods of organising our learning. I think this week of the course should be interesting as we are looking at instructional design. Will these be the tools we need to build an equitable system or just another way of maintaining the status quo?
Picture of Jorge Crom
Re: Balance of power in groups
by Jorge Crom - Wednesday, 22 October 2008, 12:50 PM
 

Roy and Tim: We should admit that complex interconnected networks are not egualitarian. Particullary when you have mavens (Gladwell) or hubs that show a dramatic amount of links compared with other nodes. This is the case of power law and scale free networks (Barabasi).

Nevertheless, we have networks that may have an adaptability grade that may generate and allow the evolution of another network that may compite with the previous one.

We should also think about proposals like the ones Tim suggested in a previous comment about how to mitigate these behaviour in networked organizations.

Picture of Frances Bell
Re: Balance of power in groups
by Frances Bell - Friday, 24 October 2008, 02:32 AM
  Those are really important points about preferential attachment Jorge. Maybe, it's not so much about establishing 'equitable' or egalitarian networks as entities but more about looking at our practice as we traverse networks. Are we able to make judgements on the value to us of nodes and sub-nets (their quality) on the basis of something more than a star rating or a count of connections? What is our practice within these networks?
Picture of Bye Has left the building
Re: Balance of power in groups
by Bye Has left the building - Friday, 24 October 2008, 08:11 AM
  Hi Frances,

Your post got me thinking back to Stephen's post in week 2 were he says: "Summary: Connective knowledge is both: knowledge OF networks in the world [and] knowledge obtained BY networks" As you point out we need methods of deciding the value of the knowledge we have OF networks and how we act on this knowledge in our own practice.

Using Stephen's distinction I was thinking about networks in terms of knowledge obtained BY networks. The network of archaeological roads in a landscape inscribing (thanks Roy) the layout of present day cities. The network of Victorian sewage pipes in British cities filtering out the knowledge of cholera and infant mortality from the everyday lives of the cities inhabitants. These networks filter, inscribe, transport, articulate, transform, bind, transmit, in-print, constrain, not just our physical environment but our cultural and psychological environments.

How should we behave when a network we create and maintain like our current economy reduces over a billion people to living on less than a dollar a day?
Picture of Frances Bell
Re: Balance of power in groups
by Frances Bell - Friday, 24 October 2008, 09:01 AM
  Yes, Tim. I also thought about that little discussion we had about roads earlier in CCK08. Your point about public health is important. Salford (where I work) , a deprived borough 130 years ago and now, made its greatest strides in health improvement through public works rather than medicine. I know that, not through Wikipedia, but because my father told me it with pride (a Salford lad, long dead).
Anyway, I have blogged a bit more about the quality issue here.
Picture of roy williams
> How should we behave?
by roy williams - Sunday, 26 October 2008, 02:03 PM
  > How should we behave
Great question. First, takes one step back to: "How can we behave?" - what new affordances do we have? The we can look at how to create a better global commons.

The good news
It is true that we have some great neworks, or incriptions of knowledge in place - like the sewers. However many of these networks have huge inertia, and their legacy is mixed.

A few of the current ones (virtual adaptive networks that work through the Internet) are radically more flexible, at least at the ideas, information, knowledge, collaboration level, in terms of speed, range, trans-scriptions: writing across, and even 'executing across' .

This creates new (although not necessarily free) commons, and one way of defining Web2 is somewhere along the spectrum of media (or media-ted) commons:

1. Readable commons: mass media from Gutenberg onwards.
2. Writable commons: user-generated content in social software
3. Executable commons: personal apps from RSS upwards. These are only 'personal' in one, rather literal sense. To a greater extent these are network nodes, or multi-network nodes (or in post-modernist discourse: intertextual, interdiscursive). However you approach it, they are not 'individual' in the traditional sense of the word (see the archaic: "freedom of the individual" discourse, for example).

These three are fairly distinct, although not disjunct.

Then there is the cross-commons, or inter-commons. [And yes, I am making up these terms, but also borrowing from previous powerful ideas, like "inter-textuality", for instance].

Inter-commons
4. Collaborative commons
Networks of all of the above, in mixed modes across virtual and 'faced' interactions/ networks.

5. The commons of powerful perspectives (CPP, or is that a bad pun?)
These are mixed mode, across 'writable' and 'executable' commons: there are many examples, and maybe we could set up an Inter-commons entry on the course wiki? Its a derivative of Paperts Powerful Ideas, and maybe his Mindstorms should be up there with the best of the Powerful Perspectives. Some other examples: e.g. ...

Sorryeverybody
Who knows, it could be followed up in the next two weeks with "Happyeverybody".

Gapminder
This allows us to produce and circulate different 'positions' from which you can see things from a different perspective. It shows for instance how family size is crucial part of a some powerful memes.

And Gapminder takes us back to your question, as it show, graphically (in two senses) what some of the problems are for the 'last billion' and how some progress has already been made. Which is a good place to start answering 'how we should behave?' (standing on the shoulders of powerful perspectives?).