 | Power and Auto-Subscribe |
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Moodle offers me the option to 'force everyone to be subscribed to this forum'. Given that this week we are talking about Power, Authority, and Control... what did you think about that? And if you are one of the many who simply did not subscribe to new weeks' forums as they came up... why not? |
 | Re: Power and Auto-Subscribe |
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The great thing about modes of domination in 'organised' uses of technology is the endless ingenuity of those who would be dominated as they invent workarounds or 'resist' as it is more pejoratively termed. I can assure that were you tempted to set that option some users would go their profile and turn off the receive email option (marked with a little red cross on user profiles). Quite by chance, my party shuffle has just turned up "I Will Survive" by GLoria Gaynor  |
 | Re: Power and Auto-Subscribe |
| I think .... 'you can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink'! |
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You can lead a horse to water but a pencil must be lead? (Frances, I was listenening to Queen's Under Pressure and turned it down!) |
 | Re: Power and Auto-Subscribe |
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Why did I not subscribe to new weeks forums as they came up... 1. I am doing this program as an extension and professional learning activity enabling me to connect to others and have access to information and perspectives for my own and my learners knowledge development. So for my own sanity I like the power of being able to manage emails forum posts and my activity not for any machiavelian reason, but so that I can maintain a sanity when I open up my email inbox. 2. The option of having resources and forums opn to go to when I make the time is the beauty of this environment for me. So now that I have posted off the last masters assignment I have scheduled in a more consistent viewing of the forums, discussion blogs and activities that have been occurring over the last four weeks when I have had different priorities. Having said that this email reminder was timely and I have now jumped back into the fray to have a read and contribute. " I am all for power to the learner but also appreciate power to the facilitator" - push or pull - balance and control the learning challenge Cheers Colleen |
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I'm in your forum, rejecting your authority. |
 | Re: Power and Auto-Subscribe |
 Original image: No Power Needed by ClassyShots(Mike) http://www.flickr.com/photos/classyshots/2304282061/ |
 | Re: Power and Auto-Subscribe |
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ok... as almost a lurker on this course... i've not subscribed because i've not been participating very much. (but look, the email totally motivated me!) i have LOTS to say about power, authority and control... but am going to hold my thoughts on those topics... since i've not been participating! GREAT topic, though! c. |
 | Re: Power and Auto-Subscribe |
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Very good Stephen. Here I am 11.20 at night getting ready materials for the next few days and I get a small flurry (I hope) of auto subscribe emails. Whats happening - not my usual google alerts (plenty of those). Its an attention seeking device. And it reminds me of Michael Wesch's video 'A vision of students today'. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=dGCJ46vyR9o I have been thinking a lot as a result of this course. Tasting content from a myriad sources - like browsing in a bookshop. But now the shopkeeper has cornered me, demanding my attention and in so doing he has broken my train of thought. I could set and use filters to re-direct unwanted emails to a 'holding' folder if someone ignored my choice of not to subscribe. Presumably this is an exercise that provides the audience with an 'authentic' reason to learn how to filter or get there revenge on students who facebook during their lectures ? How very dare they! The question of participation. As a Brit I can say that the best parties are usually in the kitchen where the booze is and the smokers hang out. The health facists will disagree - let them, this is my opinion. We talk, we drink and we laugh and we are the last to leave. I have found that the 'party' you and George have thrown is so vast that there is more than one kitchen. In each kitchen there are so many conversations going on - that you must all be virtual drinkers and smokers! |
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Hey Stephen You're the boss! Well one of them, any way  . My only reticence about being autoscribed is having flashbacks to the dreaded Introductions thread that was filling my mailbox with "Hiya" type notes and some the threads are just "over my head" so as we discussed I need to filter the input somehow. |
| Pleased |
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I had disappeared from sight for a range of reasons (schedule, not knowing as much about the technologies as I needed to know to get stoked for deep participation...). However, the topics you are exploring are ones I care about. Speaking of power, aspects of my dissertation (nearing completion) are about the horizontal communities at the margins of vertical power structures. By the way, if there is one thing that gets me really excited about learning via information technologies it's having the design of the experience coherent with the content. I hope to write about that one of these days. So: an interesting and relevant move, Stephen. Alice |
 | Re: Power and Auto-Subscribe |
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Interesting how we are being challenged on the way we 'connect' to the forum. The 'Afterword' article by Manuel Castells from the Network Logic Readings discusses the power within networks and ways to counter networks of power... " ... to counter networks of power and their connections, alternative networks need to be introduced: networks that disrupt certain connections and establish new ones." Quote from Abraham Lincoln: "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." Careful Stephen, you never know where your control may lead ;) |
 | Re: Power and Auto-Subscribe |
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"Given that this week we are talking about Power, Authority, and Control... what did you think about that?" Selecting the auto-subscribe button a Moodle platform is like asking if everyone received the handout in a f2f class. It doesn´t really assure that people are paying attention, but it is an effort in that direction. "And if you are one of the many who simply did not subscribe to new weeks' forums as they came up... why not?" I choose not to auto-subscribe because I want to create and maintain my own personal learning network, deciding which Moodle threads, if any, to participate in. It´s like attending a convention and deciding to attend the talks that interests me most and choosing who I wish to network with. There are a lot of offshoot discussions (e.g., blogs) that are a learning experience in and of themselves. The auto-subscribe option has little to do with power, influence, or control, just as a Moodle platform, a physical classroom, or a computer lab has power, influence, or control over the learning environment. Power, influence, and control relate more to the number of maintained relations one has within the network and how many of those maintained relations are considered direct ties. |
 | Is knowledge power? |
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Is knowledge power in network learning? May I quote this one which echoed my thoughts: "By high school and college I learned that while I could not be popular, I could be useful. Being useful by doing all the work earned me a certain level of leadership potential because I became visible to the kids who cared about a certain club. My new strategey was to trade work for attention. I still use that strategy more than I should, and I'm guessing there are a lot of men and women who do.... By the time I hit the working world I had tried lots of strategies. It wasn't until I studied group process that I realized that groups have patterns, and if you can predict the patterns of the group you can be in the right place at the right time. That sort of knowledge is power. I also learned about how ruthless groups can be to members who are innovative (deviant) or perceived as weak. Different behaviors will be interpreted differently depending on the stage of the group's development. That's what we are here to learn. No matter what strategies you currently use, this one will only add value and save time." What is this one to you? Are you in a group or in a network? Or are you in both? What stage of group's or network's development are you in? How do you interpret this? Is this view reflective of what happens in the business world (in a group), and/or in a network? Or is it dangerous, foolish or simply not worth it, because....it may be going against the organisation's mission or network's ideal? Wow.... What's your experience? |
 | Re: Power and Auto-Subscribe |
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I didn't subscribe because I don't want all the email. I am lurking, but learning. This has been an interesting experience but I do not have time to actively participate. Moodle allows users to alter subscription options by making changes in the "advanced" section of the "edit profile" page. One option is to automatically subscribe to a forum to which you have posted. Some of you may like this, but this results in a lot of email. Another option is to "highlight unread posts." This setting indicates the number of unread posts. This one is very helpful and will let you know when there are unread posts. Otherwise you need to open each discussion to see if anything is new. Now, Steven, please use your power to unsubscribe me from this discussion. I tried to do it myself, but this feature is apparently not available when the instructor chooses to subscribe all (power, authority, and control again). Thanks, Ken |
| Empower your self with a workaround |
Try one of these edits to your profile, find that by clicking on your own name in a post or CCK08 front page|participants (when logged in). We have the power (and will clog up the log data with failed email sends )Actually, it seems to be turned off now but this is one to store for later. |
 | Re: Power and Auto-Subscribe |
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Stephen, If you are taking the course for credit, why not have a user group that is auto-subscribe. It's donwright annoying to have to remember to have to re-subscribe each week. I found myself wondering why some weeks were light on forum emails until I realized it was Tuesday and I hadn't signed up. Let the lurkers work for their information and make them sign up! Just kidding The courses I teach for RMC have everyone automatically signed up for each foum, but funny thing, they ahve no RSS or email feeds (Desire2Learn), thus forcing learners to have to come into the LMS daily to check out what is going on. For my day job, SharePoint is default no Alerts and if you forget to sign up for all the differnt spots in a sight, you can miss the one critical alert that you needed to get something done. Why is there never a happy medium! (Cause every user/situation is different, you dummy Brad) By the way, thanks for subscirbing me Zeus. Now I can spend time writing this post instead of wasting time signing up. |
 | Re: Power and Auto-Subscribe |
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I don't particularly like the forced subscription because I try to keep my volume of email to what I consider a reasonable level. I'm wondering how many emails I'm going to get given the size of the student population! Yes, I could have simply ignored the emails and not replied, so it worked on one level. I've been a lurker partly because of job demands, partly intimidated by the wide range of expertise in the participants, and partly because I'm not quite sure how much I can contribute to and maintain a dialog about most of the modules. |
 | Re: Power and Auto-Subscribe |
| Sorry, guys, but I'm afraid I have to agree: I resent the forced subscription thing. Now I'm being inundated again with these discussion threads, which is not fun. I like to look at the discussions at my own pace and according to my availability. I've been a lurker precisely because of job and other academic demands. |
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Hi Stephen, I like the attention and wish I had two or three of me to have more involvement in the course. I'm in another DE course, working, have community obligations and family. However -- I'm also doing a lot in this course -- not just lurking -- some Elluminate sessions, U-stream, and readings. I eagerly open and read the Daily and most of the blogs listed there. I'm so connected -- and I hesitated taking this course too -- but I thought -- you and George actually have given me so many options that I can be selective. I want to be my own authority, and I want to be connected and have some groups to which I'm a bit more connected. I'm definitely giving myself this course as a treat -- not as another demand on me. I really like the course and have got lots out of it. Cheers, Jo Ann |
 | Re: Power and Auto-Subscribe |
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Well said (in reply to Jo Ann Hammond-Meiers), This is exactly the way I am handling this course, as one more node in my distributed learning network, not always on, but always there. I like Jane Petring's explanation of LURK as Learning to Unleash Resources and Knowledge. I'm glad also to be waking up to a flurry of email from the course (must have something to do with the power of auto-subscribe Waking up a little further now (strong coffee! no ovaltine for me As to why I did not subscribe to other forums, in three letters the answer is 'duh' ... I didn't realize I needed to. I guess I got lulled from the start with all those intros thinking all forums would pass my way in similar manner, then I became relieved that the flood receded to manageable proportions and didn't go messing with the flood-gates and while drying out I got on to other things I'd put on hold, and then I must have fallen asleep like an avatar in SL because, as I said earlier, I'm just now waking up. Appreciating all that's happening here, Vance |
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One effect of this little experiment is that I now perceive the smily-face default icon you (Stephen) use as having a smug expression. I wonder if that perceived property will transfer to the same icon used by other forum members. In other news, the way Gmail handles the auto-subscribed messages makes them not too bothersome, since they appear in one message line in the inbox, which makes me grateful to the coders: so you have helped consign a little more of my soul to Google (even if I haven't (yet?) followed George in abandoning Firefox for Chrome.) |
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| I must say I was tempted to consign the messages from this forum to spam - though find the responses rather like being drawn to a train wreck. |
 | Changing the subject line to assert my power |
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It certainly makes a point about authority. It's tempting not to answer the question (I have a history of responding poorly to authority), but I will because there is another aspect to this than just power. Everyone has a different work flow, and it depends on what you mean by "subscribe", since there are two choices for forums in this class now: subscribe by email, or by RSS feed. I have all my "places" linked on my blog, including this place. I work from there, and go everywhere. Email, for me, is more appropriate for one-on-one communication. If I wanted to "subscribe", I'd do it through my feed aggregator. Would you even see that at your end? BTW, my online classes in Moodle track participation of students through log-ins, and record what pages they're on. I don't know whether Moodle records subscriptions or feeds (for the latter, I really doubt it). When I look at a students' participation record in Moodle, it is not accurate, because if a student subscribes or uses RSS feeds, it doesn't record the log-in. So they can be reading everything, but if they don't log in and post, it looks like they're not "attending class". I can't believe we're all in here justifying why we don't subscribe, as if it's an expectation, when I know it isn't! I'm finding the response to authority more interesting than the authority. (PS I'm really glad I didn't use my work email address for this class -- I can't imagine how pissed off I'd be if these all suddenly came into that mailbox. For more limited users, emails from here could even fill up mailboxes and cause real problems. I'd suggest ending the experiment once you've gotten the response you want.) |
 | Re: Changing the subject line to assert my power |
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I do actually use my work email, and was set to create a filter for these mail to bounce back and create havoc with the mail server on Uman's side. Actually my first thought was a little more profane. In the spirit of the prisoner: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29JewlGsYxs |
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Hi Stephen, I´m a lurker and I love it. The more I read the more I learn! Participating is also reading the Daily, the blogs, the background reading and Elluminate sessions, you name it. It´s a flood. A pleasure. See you around |
 | Re: Power and Auto-Subscribe |
| I understand the concept, but I do not appreciate being auto-subscribed to anything. This course has shown me to guide my own learning, not have someone force learning upon me. However I am an adult, with free thinking skills, others still need guidance... |
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Well from my end, power can be applied but not really forced!! Maybe is a way to try to achieve something, but not really sure if that was desired outcome. Kind a complex matter, just need to find BALANCE. Regards |
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Hi Eliecer I think you're onto something there. The only power Stephen has over our Inboxes is influence to the degree that we choose to respond to it or not. As we saw in these forums at first there were those who would respond to every message with an attack and some of those being attacked responded as if the attacks were somehow higher learning! But once good parenting skills were employed and the tantrums were ignored the noise ratio dropped. Maybe that is what Stephen was trying to say in his controversial remarks to Lisa in the chat the other day. There are always responses and reactions to influence though some are too painful or drastic to be considered. We have a saying in the US that there are only two things that are inevitable, death and taxes. As a Christian I can see a loophole in the former and the latter could be avoided by jailtime or the latter as well. |
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You have certainly proved your point of abuse of power, oh not so benevolent god-like dictator, in so that I will likely nuke this Moodle account. You have change the rules that we understood, as subscribing was an op-in option that you have now revoked, and with this Moodle God Power we have no recourse to unsubscribe. Evil Stephen, Evil Bert, Evil Stephen! Hah. My form of connectivism says that I maintain personal control of my connections, my communications, my inbox, of which you have abused (obviously as example). This mat have been the most concrete lesson of this course. Now I have to go back to not doing my homework and not doing my reading and not doing my charts. (5 minutes later)... I have taken back control by Google Mail filtering this forum message out of my inbox. Take that, you gnarly Monctonian!  Dog rules! |
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Well Stephen, you really made me laugh! I'm not a horse, I'm more like a cat so you have proven your point... I'm here. It was about time you used your power openly. Are you enjoying it? I guess you are having fun with your experiment, it was also about time for me to enjoy the way you move in the "course". I read in twitter that the forum was dying, let's see what happens after this. I have not been around here to see if it's true, I will leave after I post this so I may find out later. Maru :X |
 | Re: Power and Auto-Subscribe |
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Stephan, I don't need an e-mail alert, thank you. Why not? Why do you put your left sock on first? I put my left sock on first because I found that it is easier and less painful. I hope this has helped you decide which sock to put on first or indeed whether or not to wear socks. My answer to why I choose not to describe why I choose not to subscribe is that it wouldn't be useful to the other forum members. However, if you are collecting (treating all of us as a collective) statistics on how many new posts you can collect when you send irritating reminders of the forum, would you please share the numbers of "seldom posting" individuals so we will all get an idea of how effective "spam" is in a Moodle class. Thanks, B-ob |
 | Re: Power and Auto-Subscribe |
| Is the only way for me to unsubscribe to withdraw from the course? |
 | Re: Power and UN-Subscribe |
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I came here to unsuscribe and do not see how? Since I'm now posting anyway, I'll say what I said to Stephen in a reply e-mail. I wonder... Would this email have promoted as much of a response if it came from someone with less authority? Or with less respect? To be blunt, I may have been pissed off at the spam rather than intrigued by the conversation. This has been a clever social experiment that will soon outlive its' entertainment value without an option to opt out... an abuse of authority.  |
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Tip of the hat to cogdog. I've now filtered all messages like this to be deleted automatically from my gmail account. I'm still getting all other email from the course. I will participate on my own terms. In any case, you've made your point. Newton's Third Law: For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. |
 | Re: Power and Auto-Subscribe |
| When I first signed up for this course I did auto subscribe. When I saw that my inbox was flooded with more than 100 emails from this forum a day I was forced to unsubscribe. The flood of emails was negatively effecting my work flow at my job. While I am not a very active participant in this class I do enjoy lurking from time to time. If this is your way of shaking the tree to get the leaves that are just barely hanging on to fall off I think it might have been successful. I hope I didn't accidentally delete any important messages when I removed all of these messages from my inbox. Oh, wait, I just realized that by commenting here I will be adding to the the mess for others. oops. Please return my inbox control. |
| Re: Power and Auto-Subscribe |
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Hi Stephen, Thanks for this forcing experience that they have to open or not to open the mails. My opinion is simply because we have the cause and effect rule that makes a person feels satisfied or disatisfied of the way cck08 carried out. Feeling open that you will accept it or not which I mean the Balance of the mind that makes you unpack the worst idea. Do not be prejudiced !, Thanks Irlan Rahardja
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I did not subscribe simple because i was diverted in my activities. You can have the Power, Authority, and Control to do it automatically but as I have the repower to unmake it , no problem. Your action has functioned as a reminder only. Good job Stephen. Helena P.S. Sorry, no time to spell this peace of creation . |
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I came here to unsubscribe, because I want to decide myself what to follow and when. I have read Moodle forums, not all, not long writings  and I can read everything without subscribing. Some times I have written and then taken away the subscribe at once. I want that the emails I get are written to me not to anyone so I didn't like your forcing at all. To use power strenghens resistance: So keep your course, this forum will never be mine |
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Currently snowed under with new job. Trying to encourage participation in a moodle forum on a pilot programme I am evaluating for learning in the community. Didn't realise I could 'force' subscriptions as a means - but don't want to alienate the learners by swamping their mailboxes either! I plan to participate more actively in CCK08 as soon as my deadline for project finishes mid-Nov. Enjoying the occasional involvement and am saving all the presentations for later. GKelly |
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lol, this is funny...nice didactic approach Stephen (please never do this again... ) |
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What I think about that?... Shit. I don´t want to become all the forums discussion in my email. Sorry. Stephen!!! I don´t want to be subscribe to all new weeks´ forums! I have enough information overload in my life. Bye! |
| Re: Power and Auto-Subscribe |
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Thanks for auto-subscribing me to this thread Stephen. It has brought me back to the fold - albeit temporarily I fear. Like many others I guess I enrolled in this course to be part of the experiment but have far too many other things going on to do it justice. When teaching with Moodle I always start with this 'force subscribe' option. I explain to students why I use it and how it works, and that they can turn it off. I need these reminders that the course is there. Having a lot of email alerts doesn't bother me - it takes very little effort to delete them. But I find myself reading, sorting, archiving, or deleting this new batch of emails as they come in. Power wisely used I say. |
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Thanks Michael for your perspective .. i like your patient understanding, and i like the way you've explained how you use Moodle with your classes. Makes sense to me: a) first include people, then b) empower them to understand and change their settings if they will. i've been setting people's email to Full Daily Digest as default, when i first join them up .. everyone seems to get annoyed if they receive a single email per forum posting. i find it easier to do that for them, than to experience their annoyance and then explain how they have the power to change .. (See i have the power to include that option when i bulk subscribe new users.) Never thought to Force Subscribe, but i might just try your approach next time ;-] A judicious use of power. kind regards, michael |
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I regarded this action was a reflective and provocative movement , because I could see how many times I promoted situations like these for my students, kids, colleagues.
We use this "power" often, sometimes, without "feeling it" or in an unconscious way (if it is this possible ...) Take care!
D. |
| Re: Power and Auto-Subscribe |
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Stephen, I would like to request that you turn this feature off. I am participating in this course in my free time, not doing it for credit, and my inbox is filling up with a long list of e-mails I don't wish to read. I was perfectly content to lurk, and read the discussions on the Moodle, rather than being forced to read every single one that comes through my inbox. If you are not willing to remove this feature, then I will have to close my Moodle account on this forum. Yours sincerely, Richard Hussey. |
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Richard. I am lurking too. I don`t have enough time to read all the messeges that come to my inbox, so I read some of them as in a lottery. Luckily I read yours. Consider this: Who is going to be the loser if you close your account: you or Stephen? Be patient, please. Eat only what your stomach can digest and let the rest to others more hungry than you. Sincerely yours, Horacio Idarraga GIl.  |
 | Re: Power and Auto-Subscribe |
| That was quite an annoying move there Stephen! The problem is not so much to be made to receive the new news forum, but to receive the showers of emails that followed in my inbox. I knew you had it in you to take control some times and make us all happy! |
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ARRRGHHHH!!! Alright, you made your point. Now I will return to driving my own bus, putting my right sock on first (some days), and lurking/dipping/partaking as the spirit moves me. Thanks, Stephen, for the didactic nudge. |
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Because I read it on the Moodle. Fortunately I have not been clobbered by the mails, presumably because of some setting I have made, but I do think one should avoid annoying people... |
| Re: Power and Auto-Subscribe |
| Thinking about this, I think I am not going to take the obvious response of not using the Moodle. I am going to use the Moodle, and not blog about the course at all. Furthermore, I think I will make all my posts on this thread... after all, Stephen is making sure everyone gets to see it (and ignore it because it is spamming them) |
| Re: Power and Auto-Subscribe |
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Thank you everyone, your responses have made my week. I appreciate the good humour with which you've responded to my gesture. I thought it might shake things up a bit. I wonder how people would have reacted had they been enrolled in a traditional online course. Would they feel they have the option to just withdraw from the discussion. What about people who are in a classroom? Can they just tune out? Anyhow - I have relinquished my power - and anyone who wants to unsubscribe may do so. I think this is the link taking you to the page where you can do this: http://ltc.umanitoba.ca/moodle/mod/forum/view.php?id=188 |
| Re: Power and Auto-Subscribe |
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Stephen (in less passive-aggressive mode I will spell his name correctly) wonders "how people would have reacted had they been enrolled in a traditional online course. Would they feel they have the option to just withdraw from the discussion. What about people who are in a classroom? Can they just tune out?" I enrolled in the class wanting to learn about a variety of things, one being the way a large course like this could operate. I am also curious about online pedagogy and am looking for knowledge in this area. Given that everyone has different learning styles, couldn't a course be designed to allow all participants to learn without forcing particular behaviors? Some of us have been learning without adding to this particular element of the course. I discussed this course with a colleague/fellow lurker. Although it did not occur in Moodle, was this discussion not valuable? I have run with ideas from this course by completing additional research, learning in my own quiet way, without so much as a word in this discussion. I guess I am just "tuning out." Stephen makes my point - this is not a "traditional online course." Is this a bad thing? Must we follow traditions that have apparently been established in the very short history of online learning? Maybe we could also question the value of these traditions - even the holy grail of online discussions. Is force subscribing everyone a form of power over others, or is this action the result of a relatively powerless situation in which we do what we always do because someone says this is how it must be done? Is opting out of discussions a use of power that threatens the educator, the one who apparently has the rightful claim to power? Ken |
| Re: Power and Auto-Subscribe |
| Does Moodle empower you to forcibly unsubscribe as well as forcibly subscribe? Or is this experiment now out of your hands and in those of the Moodle designers? Power lurks everywhere. |
| Re: Power and Auto-Subscribe |
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I recall this discussion about "tuning it out" going back to, what, the second week? I think the ability to tune out is related to emotional response, perceived needs, and, in the case of online communications, technical ability (i.e. understanding how to filter Gmail or revise your Profile using a dummy account so these emails don't reach us). I use Moodle with my traditional online students and force them to auto-subscribe to only one forum, Latest News, which I use rarely, mostly to announce when things are changed or graded. This exercise in power has caused me to think about whether that's a good idea. Since the course is not set up to be self-paced, but rather traditional, I think it is appropriate. In the traditional environment, I would have concerns that students would miss something if I didn't. In an open environment, I think it would be inappropriate. (BTW I am also concerned that students wouldn't know how to "opt in" even if they wanted to. Our Moodle installation at the college leaves the forum default on, so when a student posts they are automatically subscribed to that forum. After fielding many questions on how to turn that off, it became a prominent item on my FAQ.) Lisa |
| Re: Power and Auto-Subscribe |
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Lisa, Isn't it kind of rude to make a post, and then not subscribe to hear what the other perosns response is? Its like a one-way conversation. If you are ticked off witht he oringal poster, you never hear back from them and your view may never be cahnged especially if the original poster recants, rephrases etc. The foum has become like the letter to the editor page. Someone reads an news article in the one paper they buy for the year, get ticked off, writie a letter to the editoro, and never bother to find out if others or anyone has responded (either in simlar letters, an editorial feedabck, or a news artcile addressing the concern (espeicailly if it was something poltical). I think you are legitmate in setting up a mandatory "Latest News" to ensure at least one channel of communicaiton is open, especially if it only gets used once every several weeks. You note it would not be appropriate for an open forum, And I would suggest the welcome announcement to the site give the person an opt out link prominently displayed in the email. In fact, all Moodle emails should have an opt out link in the bottom right, next to the "Reply" link. Maybe ths is a fnew feature request. Someone who is familiar with the Moodle change request process feel free to take this up. |
| Re: Power and Auto-Subscribe |
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Bradley and Lisa, The "latest News" works very well in practice. In my opinion, the syllabus should explain that the student will only receive IMPORTANT news in this forum and should open the e-mail link when it appears. Also, I always suggested to folks that they send one message to the everyone enrolled on the first day of class demanding a response - i.e., "please reply when you get this message". This makes sure everyone has gotten into Moodle, Angel, etc. and is able to use the forum. However, allowing the students to choose the method of subscription or no subscription helps them take on responsibility for their own learning And, perhaps, helps them find the way that is most comfortable for them to use the technology. The instructors way, no matter how cool, may seem awkward to the student. Let them develop their own path. Once again - just in case - I've probably stated the obvious. B-ob |
| Re: Power and Auto-Subscribe |
| Bradley, I don't need to subscribe -- I just come back here and check the discussion to continue the conversation. I also make notes of which conversations I'm involved in. On blogs, I'm starting to use co.comments. I can also use RSS if I want. I don't need email subscriptions. |
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| Quite so. The point is that if one is truly engaged in the conversation, one will use whatever technique or technology works best to remain engaged. The crucial ingredient is engagement. Or connection, I guess. |
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Lisa, I use Email to manage my notifications. I ahve set up RSS feed accounts on 3 differtn occasiosn in the past only to never go to them becasue I can barely keep a handle on my home and work email accounts. So, I channel everything by email as it is the one thing I have open all the time. I use Daily SharePoint alerts for the same purpose and SharePoint, through Microsoft Office Project, alerts me daily when I have a new task or when I have reported progress on a task through time reporting. Just my user preference. I know some people live by their RSS feed because they can chose to ignore it if they desire becasue there is no one demanding they respond, and they can access the feed via work, home or mobile device. I have yet to easily see what sub psots I have not yet read in a particular forum. Other Discussion Forums I ahve used at least indicate unread psots by bolded subject lines (they go unbold after viewing) |
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Like many have said, even though you bulk subscribed us to this forum, that doesn't mean anyone got anything out of it. Technically savvy folks will delete, file, index, mark as read, curse your name under their breath and go about their business. While you exhibited your power, it means nothing (to me). I can still ignore you, or delete your messages, I still have the power of choice. This is the same in a traditional classroom - you can cajole, guilt, prod, shame, order all you like, but your students can still ignore you (and usually fail the course in the process). The human dynamics are similar online, face to face and in blended/hybrid modes - power plays are rarely a useful teaching strategy. The only exception I can think of is one where there is military training where one "has to be broken down to be built back up". |
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Your on the course, so i would say its an automatic opt in, if you not interested then opt out. It's more convenient than signing up to each forum |
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| I know folks don't mean it offensively but I have noticed a few folks responding to the effect that they would participate but they are too busy with their real lives. I just wanted to mrntion that we ALL have busy lives, even those of us taking this course for credit. Please don't equate participation with lack of actvity in other areas of life. We all choose priorities and preferences but they shouln't be confused with a lack of involvement in other areas of life. |
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| I did not subscribe in a small effort to take back control of my email inbox. I wish I could do that with all of my email. At the same time, I can choose to stroll back into the Moodle forums at any time. How's that for passive rebellion? |
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Honestly, I prefer to take notice in my mail on activity in Moodle. Though, after seven weeks, I only open e-mails from people who I believe that emit opinions relevant. The remainder will remove and, if I have time I'd read directly in Moodle. In any case, compared to the power of the administrator to send all mail to the post of Moodle without notice or consent, the user it has the power mark it as spam. Do not you think? Therefore, the power is always relative and is in direct function of the person or group on which it is intended to exercise it. |
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Nice to meet people, who were participating but in places where I did not see them. They/we get an experience, a gift, from someone using his power. Isn't it part of the teachers/educators/id's role to drags students to places they would not seek and find by themselves? Is the network able to provide these gift without the use of power? Spamming is a problem, but as long as you can turn off the subscription if deltion becomes too big a job, I like to feel a pulse. /Jorgen |
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| Hey it worked. I'm here to share something. I just wanted to say that I'm glad I subscribed with gmail as gmail collects all the posts with the same subject in the same email so I can read them like forum posts inside gmail. Check out this vid to see what I'm talking about - http://screencast.com/t/JhD7r01B7J |
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Any power can be abused. Why would you choose to overload my work email with opinions I prefer to read when I have time to consider their impact? I ended up deleting these out of my inbox without even looking and I am pretty sure I won't go back and read what you are trying to shove down my throat. |
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Power, as described by Henry Mintzberg, managment guru from McGill U., is described as the ability to influence decision-making. . .there are, of course, many ways to do this, some direct, others indirect through political means. Organizational politics, are often as not thought of as the illigitimate arm of power (Mintzberg). . .no one in an organization wants to be labeled as playing political games as they carry a stigma that generally leads others to distrust them. Yet, it is impossible not to become involved in organizational politics and political games as one's very survival in organizational life depends on them...water cooler talk, coffee room talk, teacher's room talk, etc. are informal areas where we find lots of these games being played out, whether they be games related to blame (blame games) or systemic games, aimed at unseating those in power (insurgency games.) So, when I find that I am being forced, electronically, to view a myriad of daily posts from Moodle in my email, I can either delete them (playing the ignore game and it will go away game) or I can attempt to form a coaltion of other users to overthrow the 'top' and get my own agenda in here . . .another version of the insurgency game. Of course, the top can play its own game, the counter-insurgency game, through it control of resources . . .in this case, the ability to force others to see spam . . .but the user still controls the delete key...an end game. |
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I like this very, very much |
. I do receive all the moodles in my mailbox and there I choose what to read, what not. This time I first went to Moodle because I was overwhelmed by the mails about this subject. I had to empty the mailbox. Nice to see all the new names and the different reactions! Good idea Stephen! Maybe better not again? Greetings, Sia. | Re: Power and Auto-Subscribe |
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Thanks Roger for your insightful analysis of the power dynamics (and games) at play. And your reminder that the end user has the power to delete. i would argue it's also in people's power to decide whether to respond with annoyance and irritation, or with equanimity and generous good humour. Perhaps when people forget how powerful they really are, they are more likely to become irritable with others. (i know i get more angry when i think someone else has all the power - how dare someone else control my inbox?) How stressful is the all-powerful inbox!! kind regards, michael |
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I could understand a situation where this "power" would be appropriate and caring for the network. (i.e. security crisis on campus, weather alerts) however this is not one of those times. |
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One of the main reasons I had to abandon this course early was due to information overload and my own time constraints. That was reinforced when I arrived to work this morning to find 60+ unnecessary emails cluttering my inbox. Murder is wrong, and you don't need to prove that by killing someone. |
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I was pleasantly surprised to be receiving the messages at first-it meant I didn't have "to go" to this site and remember yet another password to log in. I could view and respond, easily. I could be a passive viewer and thinker. I love being the fly on the wall. But now I see these delightful missives clogging up my mail box with the site administrator on me about overload and I want/need to turn them off! Help! So I guess if the class were but a few students I would welcome it, but with so many students it has become over whelming (like this course can be). |
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| I found this whole exercise quite interesting. I teach with Moodle at both the university level and the middle school level. I seldom force subscription, although I have considered it with the teens. I prefer to "encourage" participation through grades (i.e. you get a bad one if you never post). Now I really see the wisdom of that, because especially with the teens there is already enough of that "You can't make me!" attitude. I still have a rather bad attitude in that regard myself and now have rather convincing evidence in this forum that I am not the only one. By the way, I deleted all the emails as they came into my box, but then became curious and read the whole thread on the Moodle, so I guess in a perverse way Stephen did control my ultimate actions. |
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Simple answer: dumb is as dumb does. Smart facilitation of smart networks (NOT). If you want to be the joker in the pack, at least try to be smart about it. |
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"Moodle offers me the option to 'force everyone to be subscribed to this forum'. Given that this week we are talking about Power, Authority, and Control... what did you think about that? And if you are one of the many who simply did not subscribe to new weeks' forums as they came up... why not?" All I can say is thank goodness for GMail which put all 40-something of these replies into 1 subject-line email in my inbox. I only had 9 separate emails in all and I can live with (and ignore) that. Like many of the others, I have chosen not subscribe to the discussions due to work-related constraints - we're in the middle of a major software migration and there just aren't enough hours in the day as it is. I find the readings, live sessions, and blog entries to be about all I can handle right now. However, you've gotten me to read some posts and reply. Point taken. |
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Hi Stephen, What do I think? I think you are very creative with you introduction to the Power, Authority, and Control section of the course...I'll bet you could hardly wait for this week to do this! I like little games like this - very stimulating and it snaps one out of the rut you can find yourself getting into with the patterned approach to each week. I haven't read through all the responses yet but I'm sure this week will provide lots of interesting discussion. |
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i agree, Jim .. this was a shake-up call ;-] i'm very fortunate (forward-thinking), i'd already set my email to a single daily digest - so no more email than usual. Just one very long message (collection of messages). if i wasn't protected in this way.. sure i'd have been upset, as many seem to be. And if stephen had changed my email preferences, to send hundreds of individual messages, then yes i'd have thought he was abusing his power for no good reason. As it happens, i enjoyed the power game, and may do the auto-subscribe thing myself in future. kind regards, michael |
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Hi Stephen, I've noticed you have a nice sense of humor and in that way I interpret your post. You made me laugh in the middle of lots of test to mark... As usual I'm a week behind schedule, so I haven't had the opportunity to read about this week's topic. But anyway, I'm stopping my "lurking "( for me it's "learning") and I'm showing up, again.Yeah, the power is to "have power", it's another addiction of those at the top of hierarchies, governments, universities...you neme it, they work so hard to acquire it and it becomes their worst enemy. But I've always wondered about the dynamics between the two sides of that concept: the one who exerts the "control" and the "others" who made the one in control believe he is controlling Hope you have time to read this post among the hundreds of posts you are receiving. Bye for now Sonia (from Bogotá , Colombia) |
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Hi Sonia...and Stephen... Everyday i receive many post...But many opinions... read really i can but the power of the information it´s a lot... I think the same way with Sonia (Free mind, Free spirit and idelistic) "The world is better". My experiece is so different in the educational world because i study e-learning way for two years ago and learn. Always i say the barriers down fall...The study is practice and drive the own time, space and likes. well... Bye Juliana (from the same country with Sonia) |
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| Thanks for filling my inbox in the past two days ... power in the wrong hands truly is dangerous. At least you prompted me to check out what was going on in here again. |
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ok, enough already. I get it. I did use my work email (wont in future). I elected to deal to email overload with a discard bin several times a day. And have only just come in now, when i am available to do so. Loved the approach, reminded me of a misspent youth in encounter groups. Might I suggest the next step in the zen of groups would be for the 'leaders' to disappear? I am passed being shaken by powerplays. I prefer to do my own stirring. |
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As an interesting twist, when Stephen unsubbed everyone I got unsubbed and didn't notice. I thought he was only making it easier to unsub instead of doing it for us and it took me a while to realize the difference. |
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| If I unsubbed anyone it was an error - so far as I know I only removed the lock on auto-subscribe, leaving it up to individuals to unsubscribe on their own. |
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| I was unsubbed without so choosing (although I would have). I can't decide whether or not I'm being oppressed. |
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I greatly appreciate the effort that has and is going into designing this course and the debate and dialogue that has ensued. I feel empowered by the entire experience. I am appreciative of the openness of participants to diverse perspectives and authoring styles. I am, like Inex Cambiasso, Jo Ann Hammon-Meiers, and Vance Stevens, taking full advantage of this opportunity to learn from and with Stephen, George, and all of you. I am a worker, not a lurker. I am a teacher and a teacher educator. While I am not formally trained in advanced technologies, I use tools to accomplish purposes and tasks, to communicate and create, and to enhance content delivery and learning in my literacy courses. I want to thank those of you who are more knowledgeable about the fields we are discussing and those of you who are more proficient using technology--the presenters and those of you enrolled as credit learners. Beginning last winter, I started putting all of my courses into a hybrid format, with the explicit intent of involving K12 teachers in discussions about how to use new tools and software to improve K12 learning and literacy. The discourse in the readings may be unfamiliar to me, but the concepts are not. Often the readings and lectures require me to rethink what I know and how I know what I know, which are not totally unique experiences. That's how people learn. Anyone who has developed proficiency in more than one language knows that it takes time to develop communicative competence, and those who have studied language acquisition realize that in early stages of development the learner is silent, but certainly not passive. I really appreciate it when Stephen or George review the concepts in podcasts. I wonder how they are doing what they are doing. I also appreciate receiving the e-mails and the Daily because I can see how others are responding to the readings and concepts. A text may be authoritative, but human beings bring texts alive. The Connectivism course provides an opportunity for participants to engage in dynamic learning, to live the theory, to experience contradictions of control, and to explore issues related to authority and power. When I work in an interdisciplinary fashion I know that other colleagues have expertise that I don't have. They may use a different lens or set of tools for analyzing a problem than I use. I do not feel the need to give up my authority, relinguish control, or sacrifice my freedom when I work with others. Now to the subject at hand.... I will be honest, I was not familiar with RSS feeds, Elluminate, the Moodle, or most of the technologies we are using prior to taking the course. I did not experience a problem with Stephen's exercise of power because I did not know he HAD exercised power until the discussion came up on Wednesday during the discussion. I did not know how to get into the Moodle, though I have written responses to several posts. (My responses were rejected because I was not logged into the Moodle properly, and I did not have time to recompose them). Thus, I gave up on the Moodle and I began writing responses in my own documents and filing them under CCK08 on my desktop. I did not know that I needed to subscribe to get the weekly e-mails until I read this Moodle. Stephen's exercise of power, authority, and control and your responses to this experiment made the course more accessible to me. |
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Stephen, It's official, your little expereiment generateed more forum posts (99) per single discussion topic than any other discussion topic in any other week other than Georges very first Topic in Week one "What is Connectiviesm" at 150 postings. So it would appear Authority is almost as important as Connectivism as a subject for debate. |
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power to use moodle! Think its a tough learning curve to first find the link,then subscribe then find it again and hope its where you left it. Might sound crazy but I entered that many yahoo ,clould burst snow flakes and blogs in the first weeks and have not really got a handle on any. Still finding nests of videos I should have watched. Those I watched and scribbled about are now in a massive folder -should have found a way to identify those i analysed . Instead found a way to save the front picture of all u streams but not the content-the course materials are like a slippery eel. i am so glad everything is on a hub somewhere because i go over and over finding the same blogs not realising I have already read them!!! At last I am getting familiar with my use of technology so am working out strategies to pin down the conversations. So I think i need a nearby ,physical entity to get the most organisation from my course. the road is bumpy but I love the walk because no one expets me to be a marathon runner here .i love the complex journey as long as no one expects me to know every signpost thats for me! What if this is posted but never gets to the forum due to poor knowledge about the moodel? Is the reflection sill knowledge making-yes it works for me! |
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power to use moodle! Think its a tough learning curve to first find the link,then subscribe then find it again and hope its where you left it. Might sound crazy but I entered that many yahoo ,clould burst snow flakes and blogs in the first weeks and have not really got a handle on any. Still finding nests of videos I should have watched. Those I watched and scribbled about are now in a massive folder -should have found a way to identify those i analysed . Instead found a way to save the front picture of all u streams but not the content-the course materials are like a slippery eel. i am so glad everything is on a hub somewhere because i go over and over finding the same blogs not realising I have already read them!!! At last I am getting familiar with my use of technology so am working out strategies to pin down the conversations. So I think i need a nearby ,physical entity to get the most organisation from my course. the road is bumpy but I love the walk because no one expects me to be a marathon runner here .i love the complex journey as long as no one expects me to know every signpost thats for me! What if this is posted but never gets to the forum due to poor knowledge about the moodle? Is the reflection sill knowledge making-yes it works for me! |
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Stebven, I have no idea why I auto subscribed, but I am going to unsubscribe right now. I have added the RSS to one of my blogs so there is no need to be subscribed. Thank you for bringing up the topic of control. We have it!! |
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In the Daily, Stephen writes: Thinking Aloud About Power, Authority and Control From my perspective, the power I (Stephen) wielded this week in forcing a 'subscribe' to the Moodle forums was actually an illusion of power. One student got it: "If Stephen hadn't turned off the function as quickly as he did, I wonder if we would have taken power into our own hands, by simply not posting to the Moodle forums?" The power to do womething else, to communicate iusing alternate means, to simply not use the Moodle forums, was always in the hands of the students - if they cooperated with each other. Jenny Mackness, Jenny Connected, October 31, 2008 [Link] [Tags: none] [Comment] But, this is not quite true. Stephen nicely demonstrated that people with certain levels of authority within systems like Moodle have the power to annoy far more people at once, and far more intrusively, than those with less authority can unless the lesser beings are fortunate enough to have already changed settings. |
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It has also demonstrated two other things:
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It's certainly the case that both Stephen, with his 'teacher' role in Moodle, and the rest of us with our 'student' roles did have the power to take action over the email flood. We could have turned off email in our profiles, set a digest, filtered email, etc. and there was a groundswell of sharing this information to help each other i.e. to share the knowledge that enables us to assume that power. However, this useful knowledge was not supplied in the resources of the course, and when it was shared by students, it was likely to get lost in the flood. So there was an imbalance of power and knowledge, and difficulties in 'students' obtaining the knowledge to resist. I wasn't too affected by the flood, as I use the daily digest option, but I did find the quote from Stephen "One student got it" a little patronising. Don't smirk Stephen, it's not nice  |
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not only smug, but pre supposes there is power in stroking who 'got it' over who didnt... Gramsci and Friere suggest to free the oppressed one must free the oppressors.... Stephen, you are but a resource on my course. |
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Frances Don't feel bad. I have gotten used to Stephen not noticing that *I* "get" a lot in my Moodle and blog posts that I am not given credit (no pun intended) for. I think it's because he is being swamped with (hate?) email. |
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| Thanks for your concern Ariel. I don't feel bad. I am not a credit student and whilst I am extremely grateful to George and Stephen for organising this mass learning experience, I don't have any need to please them. They are my fellow scholars - I can learn a lot about connectivism from them, and if they engage with me and others, they can also learn from us, and from our interactions. |
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Knowing Stephen's predilection for subversion, I found his "bid for power" most amusing! I have been lurking all week without much opportunity for participation, but I enjoyed the stimulating conversation and debate it provoked. Actually, I was quite tempted to start a rumour that George's disappearance over the week was a quiet regathering of forces for a coup.....  |