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I think the primary role is to ensure that reason prevails in the process, whether classroom or network or any such group. All our knowledge begins with the senses, proceeds then to the understanding, and ends with reason. There is nothing higher than reason. |
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"There is an evil tendency underlying all our technology - the tendency to do what is reasonable even when it isn't any good". |
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Old Socs, This doesn't answer your question but... I don't mean to change Pirsig's meaning in general but it occurs to me that I would like to replace "reasonable" with "efficient" when discussing educational technology. This seems to me the "evil tendency" that it brings to teaching. In my experience teaching/learning is more a hit and miss event. It demands sensitivity to cues from the class or individual that are sometimes blunted when the management of the classroom (literal and virtual) is made too efficient. B-ob |
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Bob - it occurs to me that you (and now I) are in what Lisa Lane would call a network of dead people. How does it feel? Old Socs and I Kant (we can know which way he voted yesterday - yes we can! but he Kant) would have been on opposite sides in this football (soccer to some of you) match http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=yiZt79UKUFQ. N.B. if this (UK) link doesn't work for you, then go to to your local youtube and search for “monty python philosophy football” |
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Life and death are one thread, the same line viewed from different sides. Such talk of death! Connectivism permits of eternal life. A node may exist forever. I loved that soccer game! Had we played, China would have won! |
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Looks like the Bells vs the sockpuppet philosophers in this thread - count the posts  Now where's that picture of Thomas Aquinas? |
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| Tommy should be along soon. He is busy in debate with Rene D. right now. Seems they are trying to resolve the Truth issue again, and Rene is once again flogging his dualism idea. I've told him that dualism has no place in the materialist world of connectivism, and he is taking out his frustrations on poor Tommy! We may need a referee for this! Any suggestions? |
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| Well I was going to suggest Bruno Latour but he is still alive - how about that recent recruit to the ranks of dead philosophers, Richard Rorty (I bet he has shaken them up a bit). |
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 Just in case anyone needs Aquinas. Shall we start with the Prime Mover theory? |
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| I have just read it on Wikipedia The argument from contingency- it is a delightful theory - so stylish. Well done Tom! |
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Hello to the Bells How is it possible that I can be assured of your 'aliveness'? -I Kant |
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| I am currently barely alive, recovering from a nasty virus, but would like to claim lack of obituary as proof of my aliveness. |
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Actually, this email is proof of your aliveness. Most people in the world who die do so without an obituary. |
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| An email could be generated by AI or a friend or an enemy, so I wouldn't think it would be considered proof. |
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These are the fundamental questions by which to address the application of reason: All the interests of my reason, speculative as well as practical, combine in the three following questions: 1. What can I know? 2. What ought I to do? 3. What may I hope? Q1 concerns the limits of knowledge, bounded within time and space. Q2 concerns the moral laws of my actions Q3 concerns the substitution of belief for knowledge I will attempt to deal with your question, Socs, firstly within the realm of Q1. The following premises are instructive: a) knowledge is bounded by time and space b) the technology connection permits sensory input from objects within the network c) sensory input (a posteriori knowledge) is related to intuition (a priori knowledge) resulting in the production of understanding |
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I Kant knowledge is bounded by time and space It seems to me that a boundary is a limitation- a big or small event/area. If you talking about perception, my time seems to be limited to an instance during the previous part of a second. My space is created by moving my perception system. I have no direct way to "see" space. You may recognize that I have just finished J.J. Gibson's book. My point... I'm not sure that Gibson's theories help advance this discussion but (thanks to Roy Williams) it was a personal learning event for this old painter. Now, I feel that the topic should be - what the hell are teachers supposed to DO? How is the theory of connectivism (or any theory) going to allow the instructor the opportunity to improve teaching/learning - to recreate themselves to use the "new" tools or simply to allow the students to use them to expand their personal learning resources. Also, what is the role of the teacher in combating institutional lethargy. For instance, why are classrooms built and arranged in rows facing the front? Does the classroom have a built-in pedagogy and how much is that being moved into the virtual world of the LMS? How can the instructor "judo" the 19th century classroom and (its virtual reproduction) the "modern" LMS into a productive learning environment? Damn, these are tough questions addressing immediate practical problems (Like Socrates had when he served in the Athenian navy.) Got some suggestions? We spent a lot of time talking about Knowledge. I'm disappointed that the theorectical (once again) is drowning out the practical. Many of the participating practicing teachers have been waiting for the discussion to become more practical. I am, obviously, in with that crowd. BTW, have you read the posts in the the second week where Knowledge was discussed? There were some interesting contributions and because this is a web class, the forum is still open and the discussion continues. B-ob |
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B-ob I think this course is modelling what teachers are supposed to do, is it not? This is a connectivist course, taught by connectivists, using the latest connecting tools. I would have to guess that their answer to your question "what the hell are teachers supposed to DO?" would be: follow me. As in the categorical imperative: Act that your principle of action might safely be made a law for the whole world. |
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Hi guys! I'm glad I'm back to the forums. I came searching for a juicy discussion on the changing roles of educators and I was not disappointed. I'll quote you all in my second paper, whenever it comes out. Thanks to all of you! Have a nice weekend. Maru :X |
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Hi I Kant! My response to your thread became my second paper. I hope you enjoy it. Maru :X |
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All right, you lot, I'm blaming my latest blog post on the conversation here!  Lisa |
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Lisa's blog is more reliably available at the below link: http://lisahistory.wordpress.com/ Good stuff! B-ob |
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| Wow, it doesn't work when I link directly to the post? I am finding the .com version of Wordpress a little more restrictive than I had anticipated. Thanks, B-ob! |
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Direct link works, but you have a typo in the url http://lisahistory.wordpress.com/2008/11/08/environmental-engineering-and-course-critique/ Should be "07" |
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Hi Bob, I've tried to offer a few ideas, mainly in the context of Distance learning, in my latest blog post. My main point institutionally would be that the online presence of any institution should be focused around a social networking model for communication and dissemination of information and practice. http://learnadoodledastic.blogspot.com/2008/11/background-field-of-interest-that-i.html in the physical classroom, teachers are going to have to be creative and imaginative in working with a one dimensional setup. Here is a very interesting vision of a social media classroom (TECHNOLOGICALLY AND PEDAGOGICALLY) http://socialmediaclassroom.com/index.php/using-the-smc All the best Steve |
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| But then the educator is forcing their reasoning upon the students, and not allowing them to discover their own voice. |
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....two powerful attractions of Kant's philosophising: a universalism that transcends community boundaries, and a modesty that respects the limits of human insight.... ...Reason is autonomous and submits to no external authority; it gains authority from submitting itself to critique; and critique involves rejecting any mode of thinking or acting that cannot be adopted by all.... |
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If I understand correctly, reason is autonomous because it is based on my interpretation of reality and I can't have anyone else's reason any more than I could have their sense of self or being. By submitting my reason to critique, I am 'connecting' with another's perspective or reason and together we form a more comprehensive understanding - so long as we aren't too different in our reasoning. Does this mean to suggest that I can only be influenced by those who are of similar mind? What I enjoy the most are those that challenge the status quo and the modes of thinking that have been adopted by all. In fact, change and progress depend on it. Rejection of a mode of thinking based on its ability to be accepted seems subjective - or am I being too literal? |
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Perhaps an example will help for understanding: Your country's criminal justice system is predicated on a definition of 'reasonableness', which can be found in the statement of the rights and obligations of state agents, and in the standard for assessing guilt as in: 'beyond a reasonable doubt'. The adversarial courtroom system (crown and defence) allows for challenges by each side in order to produce the truth, based on this reason. Reason then is likely a universal concept with autonomy outside of an individual, in Kant's schema, but accessed through individuals, allowing for the limits of human insight. |
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So reason is a universal concept that is perceived uniquely by each individual and is subject to influence and past experience (otherwise how could the crown and defence be adversarial). Reason achieved through dialogue or networking with others (a jury approach to follow your example) would logically be more 'reasonable' - and a democratic approach leads to more voluntary acceptance since the 'reasonableness' is a shared perspective. If reason and knowledge are linked by this process of effective networking then the educator's role must be in large part to provide the learner the ability to effectively and wisely network (I'm trying to tie this back in with the subject heading). Then speed of change (thanks to technology) is evolving the role of the educator from the center of a network to one of the nodes in a much larger and more interconnected network. |
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I agree with a lot of what you say. If I may address by paragraph: §1 Defence and crowns may argue validity, value, relevance etc. of evidence in order to arrive at the truth. Reason 'emerges' from this dialogue, and becomes the groundwork from which to make a decision based on truth. The reasonableness of this result emerges from the process. §2 Yes. The educator should provide the network ability for the learner to exercise their networking capability (we are a curious species). §3 It has always been the case that the educator is both a knowledge node and a facilitating node, with neither the right to claim absolute jurisdiction over the center nor the right to abscond responsibility where their mastery is indicated. Some nodes have more knowledge than others. Good nodes share. |
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| Good comments. Would it be fair to say then that the role of the educator is evolving from primarily a knowledge node to one of primarily a facilitating node that models sharing? |
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I like your synthesis very much. Here is an article I also like: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa4013/is_200401/ai_n9389288 I like it mostly because it distinguishes between educare and educere: "Craft (1984) noted that there are two different Latin roots of the English word "education." They are educare, which means to train or to mold, and educere, meaning to lead out." (p.1 last paragraph). As a youth studying Latin, I learned that 'educo' meant to lead out (of ignorance, I presumed). I pondered on this and thought this to be the goal of education, by name, although I wondered how memorization and regurgitation accomplished this purpose. Only as an adult did I finally understand that perhaps I had been more 'led into' than 'led out'. A facilitator would help me with 'educere', whereas a teacher would help me with 'educare', I think. Yours in sharing, because I Kan! (and of course, Will it) |
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Hi I Kant Would you not agree that equally important is the ability to stir the emotions, to enthuse, to awaken interest to bring the senses alive (i.e where knowledge starts) Steve |
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Yes, I think that is most important. I am thinking about how to classify these various abilities/roles. What are your thoughts on the following as a start: §1.0 Role of the Educator 1.1 Knowledge Node 1.2 Facilitation Node §2.0 Goal(s) of the Educator 2.1 Educare 2.2. Educere §3.0 Method(s) of the Educator 3.1 Appeal to the affective domain 3.2 Model for learning |
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| What is Educare (educare)? |
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"Craft (1984) noted that there are two different Latin roots of the English word "education." They are educare, which means to train or to mold, and educere, meaning to lead out." (p.1 last paragraph). from: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa4013/is_200401/ai_n9389288 |