Picture of George Siemens
What is connectivism
by George Siemens - Monday, 8 September 2008, 02:25 AM
The discussion on what connectivism is will be occurring in various spaces - blogs, wikis, etc. This forum is set up for those who prefer a more central space to hold the discussion...feel free to comment, post and share your views here.


Picture of Kathryn Koromilas
Re: What is connectivism
by Kathryn Koromilas - Monday, 8 September 2008, 04:13 AM
  Just my knee-jerk reaction (I'm reading through this week's material this morning)...

The implications of connectivism for epistemology and the theory and analysis of knowledge are interesting. I completed a course on epistemology via Oxford Uni Online a couple of months ago and learned that concepts such as authority, truth, reason and justification were inextricably linked to the analysis of knowledge, while at the same time it was not clear what sort of relationship these concepts had to the goal of epistemology.

An interesting analysis of knowledge, by Edward Craig, maintained that the original concept of knowledge is simply a way of identifying good “informants.” But how can this happen in the connectivist model? thoughtful

Looking forward to this week's discussion.

approve
Picture of Jenni Parker
Re: What is connectivism
by Jenni Parker - Monday, 8 September 2008, 08:00 AM
 

Hi Kathryn

I haven't read Edward Craig, so maybe I've got this out of context..however my thoughts on how the connectivism model is associated with the concept of knowledge is that everyone you connect with is an "informant". The problem will be deciding which are "good" informants.

Picture of Silvana Pirruccello
Re: What is connectivism
by Silvana Pirruccello - Monday, 8 September 2008, 08:16 AM
  Yes, Jenni I agree with you. The real challenge is deciding which are good informats.

In connectivism model the responsability (response-ability) for learning lies totally on the learner.

I wrote my first post in my blog introducing a story of personal responsability which can be read as a metaphor for networked individualism.
Picture of Kevin Ryan
Re: What is connectivism
by Kevin Ryan - Monday, 8 September 2008, 09:51 AM
  Jenni, Silvana, you've prodded me to share. I get a distinct feeling that this view of learning being the response-ability is somewhat constrained by culture and the online environment. I've been living in Tokyo for 24 years, and find that communication patterns and learning styles often take for granted a very stable situation, and one where the authority and response-abilities lie with the "source".

Sure, out in the online wilderness and in an individualistic culture, the balance you suggest for response-ability is perhaps warranted, but we have to be careful not to overgeneralize. (Which neither of you have done, by the way).
Picture of joanna howard
Re: What is connectivism - cross-cultural issues
by joanna howard - Monday, 8 September 2008, 11:00 AM
  I've been living in Tokyo for 24 years, and find that communication patterns and learning styles often take for granted a very stable situation, and one where the authority and response-abilities lie with the "source".
A very important point, in my view. I think it's essential not to be "imperialist" about theories of learning. There are valid and varied cultural assumptions in different places that need to be taken into account. The "respons-ability" isn't only with the learner, I'd say. The informant, especially in situations of power difference, has their own responsability or responsibility as I see it, in any culture.
Picture of Kayeri  Akweks
Re: What is connectivism - cross-cultural issues
by Kayeri Akweks - Monday, 8 September 2008, 04:02 PM
  It seems that what we are all doing each day throughout our lives is trying to analyze and decide upon "good" informants. And that we readily (sometimes not so readily - and various cultural constraints can sometimes be accused) toss aside "good" for BETTER. Connectivism reshapes formal learning to match this already intuitive pattern. (And connectivism happens all of the time without technology.) This is why and how the "pipe" is so important and MORE important that the content. The pipe is what people use to become inspired to change, learn and transform. The pipe is all about people changing because they have a pressing need to do so regardless of culture.
Stephen Downes portrait
Re: What is connectivism - cross-cultural issues
by Stephen Downes - Tuesday, 9 September 2008, 07:01 AM
  I think that you can spend too much time looking for 'good' informants.

It's better, I think, to draw a parallel with 'finding a friend' rather than 'finding a reliable source of information'. You are looking for a communications partner, not an encyclopedia.

I think that most people would serve just fine as a connection. It has to do with affinity and comfort - can you talk to the person. Sure, just as in friends, there are things to avoid - deadbeats, liars, cheats - but you wouldn't select your friends based on how authoritative they are, and neither should you so choose your connections.


Picture of Ken Anderson
Re: What is connectivism - cross-cultural issues
by Ken Anderson - Wednesday, 10 September 2008, 05:26 PM
  I'm not sure I agree.  I might have friends that I am attracted to because of their knowledge. Why shouldn't I make choices based on that?
Picture of Scott Chambers
Re: What is connectivism - cross-cultural issues
by Scott Chambers - Wednesday, 10 September 2008, 08:23 PM
  There's a thought that keeps popping into my head. I plan on exploring this more within my first blog post, thanks for cmap by the way. but here's something I would love to get some reactions to. A theme of connectivism is the shift from the idea of Knowledge as a specialized and rare commodity, as per the industrial revolutionary model of education i.e. teachers with specialized knowledge have students gathered around them to learn because they are the only source available to them. Now in the information age, where the sheer mass of information out there is rediculous, as well accepting that not all that information is what could be considered "truth". I propose that by networking we are not neccesarily connecting to designated authourities or trusting in any "absolute" regarding authourity, but connecting to others whose filters within the informational onslaught we have come to trust. in other words, we no longer JUST trust in specific authorities/designated sources (although the spread of information within networks has to be introduced from some zero point) but we are also creating filters/news aggregators through our networks. Pooling collective resources so that the specialized information set that appeals to us as individuals is collected by our individual eclectic networks. Did anybody make it through that?


Picture of Ken Anderson
Re: What is connectivism - cross-cultural issues
by Ken Anderson - Thursday, 11 September 2008, 03:46 AM
 

Hi Scott.  I think I understand what you are saying. To paraphrase one part of it:  "everyone has a story, something to add.  As learners, we seek out the individuals that appeal to our requirements".

Am I close?

Picture of Lisa Lane
Re: What is connectivism - cross-cultural issues
by Lisa Lane - Thursday, 11 September 2008, 02:41 PM
  I wonder, couldn't this all go terribly wrong? I mean, if I'm the main filter for everything, including my own network, then my own biases and misconceptions would color everything I learn. And instead of that being countered by some kind of authority I've come to trust (through my contact with others in a socially-vetted, formal educational environment), I'm just kind of on my own to turn into a total nut.
Picture of Ken Anderson
Re: What is connectivism - cross-cultural issues
by Ken Anderson - Thursday, 11 September 2008, 04:26 PM
 

Good point.  I think we do place trust in some authority, to help guide us in our ways.  On the other hand, free will seems to provide the opportunity to take the nut route, if desired!

Cheers!

Picture of Jose Antonio da Silva
Re: What is connectivism - cross-cultural issues
by Jose Antonio da Silva - Thursday, 11 September 2008, 06:02 PM
 

Hello Lisa and all,

This is a very good point. Maybe it does not go all terribly wrong, it is just the way we are. We are the filters, but I think we do trust others to filter for us. I guess it is just impossible for us humans to be free from bias. I had a professor that used to say we align to the theories that make sense to us, that corroborate our observations and our experiences.

All the best

Jose Antonio

Picture of Scott Chambers
Re: What is connectivism - cross-cultural issues
by Scott Chambers - Thursday, 11 September 2008, 08:19 PM
  Freedom from bias, that would be predicated by freedom of identity I think (am sure I'll catch all sorts of heck for that one).

I wanted to respond to everyone but especially Lisa who said
"if I'm the main filter for everything, including my own network, then my own biases and misconceptions would color everything I learn."

I would argue that this happens already. hence why some people pay attention to some news organizations. FOX vs MSNBC for example. depending upon your own biases you probably go to one or the other.


"And instead of that being countered by some kind of authority I've come to trust (through my contact with others in a socially-vetted, formal educational environment), I'm just kind of on my own to turn into a total nut."

The term I would like to question is socially vetted. Could it be argued that the networks we develop are in fact vetting the information passing through them? As for formal educational environment, professionally that exists for us but does that educational environment extend for the rest of the populace past the classroom walls?

Loving the discussion guys!
Picture of Kathryn Koromilas
Re: What is connectivism - cross-cultural issues
by Kathryn Koromilas - Friday, 12 September 2008, 03:12 PM
  I had a professor that used to say we align to the theories that make sense to us, that corroborate our observations and our experiences.

Yes, that makes sense. And in the end, there is really nothing at all wrong with that is there?

But for me, knowledge is not a feel-good thing. I want to "know." You know? And so I will be very anxious about connecting to good (valid, accurate) informants in favor of friendly ones.
Picture of Jose Antonio da Silva
Re: What is connectivism - cross-cultural issues
by Jose Antonio da Silva - Friday, 12 September 2008, 04:53 PM
 

Hello Kathryn,

Maybe the way I said was wrong. I really don't believe any serious person would be willing to be surrounded by theories he/she feels good about. I really do not believe in such a hedonistic world.

I have a degree psychology, and I love psychonalysis, which goes way beyond making people feel good and comfortable. Aligning to a theory is beyond being pleased by what it says, Our choices are generally more than skin deep, at least mine are. However, they do give us pleasure in certain way because they complement us, explain who we are and allow us to grow.

Thanks a lot for pointing that out. It really made me think better about what I had said and express it a little better, Ihope.

Kind regards

Jose Antonio

Picture of April RamseyBoyce
Re: What is connectivism - cross-cultural issues
by April RamseyBoyce - Wednesday, 17 September 2008, 07:19 AM
 

Hello Kathryn,

We align ourselves with things that make sense to us or mesh with our experiences because we fear being wrong.  By not challenging what we know we limit what we can learn.  I enjoy the comfort of connecting with friendly informants, but would probably learn by far more if I would challenge those who are "unfriendly" to defend their stance.

Picture of Kathryn Koromilas
Re: What is connectivism - cross-cultural issues
by Kathryn Koromilas - Friday, 12 September 2008, 03:06 PM
  Or even on your own with other like-minded nuts. I was thinking of a type of ghetto of learners, the ghettoization of learning and knowledge.

Haven't really put much thought into this, but this happens even outside of the connectivist model, though come to think of it, with the advent of the Internet, I've seen a close friend explore a certain topic of interest with such fanaticism that is quite frightening. He seems to be connecting to all the most obscure and suspect research on the topic that interests him. The most downright fanatic presentation of the subject. I used to send links to studies linked to universities etc to counteract his "underground" or "undernet" research, but he seemed to stick to that and be completely suspicious of academic and scholarly work.

Sorry, the word "nut" just reminded me of this friend...
Picture of Lissa Hodson
Re: What is connectivism - cross-cultural issues
by Lissa Hodson - Friday, 12 September 2008, 03:56 AM
  Scott,

I totally agree with what you are saying and made it through what you were saying!!(I hope). I guess the other point in all of this is having the skill to determine what you know and why you know it through the connections that you make. It is individual and it all comes down to the notion that even if you think somebody 'knows' in the same way as you, I can guarantee that they don't. Do you think that even when we had the teacher as the font of all knowledge that each of the students had exactly the same knowledge or did they also have all those influencing factors of culture, perception, emotion etc etc?? Thanks for getting me going in this forum...was getting a bit overwhelmed with it all!!

Picture of Wendy Fasso
Re: What is connectivism - cross-cultural issues
by Wendy Fasso - Friday, 12 September 2008, 04:45 PM
 

Hmm Ken!

I wonder if I am attracted to people because of their knowledge, and I am comfortable with their perspective because I can identify with it?  And then I wonder at the comfort zone that can generate, and if my perspectives will shift - ie will I learn? 

I am not for a moment suggesting that you are thinking this, but for some it is a natural tendency to seek people with similar ideas because they validate your own?  The filters we use when we seek people out because of their knowledge become terribly important don't they?

xxx Wendy

Picture of Ken Anderson
Re: What is connectivism - cross-cultural issues
by Ken Anderson - Friday, 12 September 2008, 05:22 PM
 

Hi Wendy.  Good commentary. I have observed that some people seek out validation; in hierarchical work situations, this may be akin to surrounding yourself with 'yes' people, at the extreme. And I would contend that sometimes we seek out contrary opinions, in order to test our own ideas. And sometimes we just seek out ideas, in the absence of our own. I also agree that the filters/biases we each possess will impact our choices, and recognition of them is a big step in the process.

Picture of Lissa Hodson
Re: What is connectivism - cross-cultural issues
by Lissa Hodson - Friday, 12 September 2008, 11:25 PM
  Wendy...have you also been around a certain group in your life that actually has a negative impact on what you think?? everything at the moment in your life as far as gathering knowledge validates what you are thinking at that time. For some reason, when you break away from this, you begin to see things from a refreshed perspective and the people around you are different. So, what i think I am trying to get at, is that I agree that we gather those around us to validate our thoughts, but we don't always stay with them...I wonder why that is??

Lissa
Picture of Wendy Fasso
Re: What is connectivism - cross-cultural issues
by Wendy Fasso - Saturday, 13 September 2008, 12:33 AM
 

I am not sure what you mean by "negative impact" Lissa.  There are certainly those around us who challenge the way we think, which as Ken asserts can be a renewal rather than a problem.  I guess, if I am thinking in terms of "negative", there do exist communities of practice, certainly an over-representation in education, with such a strong cultural belief that anybody else within that community with alternative beliefs is a heretic!  But I think the effect is a negative impact on one's morale, ego, self-esteem rather than a negative impact on what one thinks smile

This is the self-reinforcing structure I was referring to previously.  When I reflect then upon the theory (or otherwise) of connectivism, I wonder about the social/organisational impact on the uptake of this way of learning and can understand better the sceptics. Often, the comfort zone is reiterating past practice, possibly even refining and improving it.  Is this learning? What say you?

xxx me

Picture of Lissa Hodson
Re: What is connectivism - cross-cultural issues
by Lissa Hodson - Monday, 15 September 2008, 02:28 PM
  I think by 'negative', I was thinking along the lines of being able to seek and finding confirmation and justification of what you were thinking and agreed that this can be re-affirming and a positive thing, it can also be a negative thing or just plain wrong. Then again,this is the beauty of being able to connect, as long as you also have the ability to soundly look 'outside' this to enable you to increase your knowledge and awareness and to continue to learn. But may be this is a skill rather than the way connectivism works,

I think this is makes some sort of sense. So, yes 'negative' refer to your point of view and I wouldn't want the network to be filtered, but I think as far as being a learner in the network, going to to simply re-affirm your position and knowledge is not want really desire either.
Picture of Pierfranco Ravotto
Re: What is connectivism - cross-cultural issues
by Pierfranco Ravotto - Thursday, 11 September 2008, 03:07 AM
  ... not to be "imperialist" about theories of learning ...

Hi Joanna
you (and Kevin) are right. But it's not only a question of different cultures (not only a question of "imperialism").
For any didactive activity we must take into account the learning styles and the goals of people involved.

teacker.blogspot.com
Picture of joanna howard
Re: What is connectivism - cross-cultural issues
by joanna howard - Thursday, 11 September 2008, 09:21 AM
  I agree, Pierfranco
Picture of Maru del Campo
Re: What is connectivism
by Maru del Campo - Monday, 8 September 2008, 01:28 PM
 

Hi Silvana!
Nice to meet you, my name is Maru.
I cannot answer yet the first question on your blog: Is Connectivism a theory or pedagogy? I need to read more.  Though I agree with your answer my aim is also to enable others to be better persons regardless if they are my students or my patients.

I agree with you on your three key points conditions for learning: To find the pressing need, to enable the will, ability and potential to make changes and to provide support.
I try to cover them in f2f sessions but I think that for online sessions you really need to pay attention to each one in order to facilitate the learning.  I enjoyed very much your metaphor, we are usually trying to place the responsibility on the outside instead of searching inside. 

I am amazed by the speed in which you read and integrate the material read.  i wish I were more like you.  Thanks for sharing. See you around.  Love: Maru

Picture of Silvana Pirruccello
Re: What is connectivism: Personal Responsibility
by Silvana Pirruccello - Tuesday, 9 September 2008, 08:40 AM
  Thanks Maru,

I've chosen that story about Personal Responsibility also because I'm trying to identify myself with the mullah and...get a WIN instead of 'getting wet'.

I certainly hope it won't be subordinated to the 'speed of the horse'.

I've set a goal for this course: feeling confortable with connectivism myself as a learner and then think of my students' needs.

Keep in touch,

Silvana wink

P.S. I visited your blog, very interesting.
Picture of Maru del Campo
Re: What is connectivism: Personal Responsibility
by Maru del Campo - Wednesday, 10 September 2008, 05:07 PM
 

Hi Silvana!

Of course I would also like to be like the Mulla though right now I am subordinated still to the speed of the camel and not in a comfortable position.  I know this will change and that it is part of my learning process.

Thanks for visiting my blog.  I have not posted yet my first impressions about connectivism, I lost access to it. I am curious:  What did you find interesting?  I post  to reflect on how I got to where I am and to remember how to solve difficulties.

Love:  Maru

Picture of Kathryn Koromilas
Re: What is connectivism
by Kathryn Koromilas - Monday, 8 September 2008, 06:20 PM
  I guess in this model, everyone has a responsibility - whether learning or teaching - anything shared in a connectivist learning network would have to be done with a real responsibility for sincerity and accuracy and truth. There are issues of trust here, too?
Picture of Ignatia / Inge de Waard
Re: What is connectivism
by Ignatia / Inge de Waard - Thursday, 11 September 2008, 08:41 AM
  hi Kathryn
But for me words like 'responsibility', 'accuracy' and especially 'truth' are indefinable; or if they are used they are defined by the context (culture, belief, background, opportunistic personal views...).
Let us look at the 'truth' as stated by religious people, even if they refer to religious books, the interpretations and thus consequences drawn from that same book are both eclectic and numerous.

The same with trust. What is trust if not the set of values a person is familiar with and thus if learning comes down to trust, we are most likely to learn something that fits (not completely but mostly) in our frame of reference build throughout our life?
cheers
Inge

Picture of Wendy Fasso
Re: What is connectivism
by Wendy Fasso - Friday, 12 September 2008, 04:41 PM
 

Hi Inge,

I like what you are saying - there is a danger in seeking "the right sources" for "the best-fit solutions" and therefore assuming that when the fit is correct, we then "know".  I believe the theory is more about lifelong learning, with living connections and an evolutionary tree of knowledge - there is no end-point, often a lot of dead-ends as we backtrack to other sources, nodes of information to find a better fit.  To me the analogy of evolution is ideal.  The concept of environmental pressure and ecological experience determining our "lived knowledge" upon which we build.  As an example, we could claim to be constructivist, and then find the fit is not all it should be, so we backtrack to find the point at which we believe our interpretation became linear, and look for other sources, other ideas, other solutions.  Does that make sense?  What I like about this analogy, is that we can continue to develop each current endpoint as our ecology changes, and create a convergence of them all to inform our current perspective.

Regards,

Wendy

Picture of Susan Burg
Siemens interview: What is connectivism
by Susan Burg - Thursday, 11 September 2008, 10:56 AM
  Hello group,

I would like to say hello to everyone. I see many friends here in the forum!
Listening to Siemens’ interview in Rick’s cafe was very interesting and I have commentedon it in my blog.


Picture of Kathryn Koromilas
Re: What is connectivism
by Kathryn Koromilas - Monday, 8 September 2008, 06:17 PM
  "...everyone you connect with is an "informant""

Yes, that sounds right to me. Thanks for clarifying this. smile I wonder how inexperienced learners learn how to flag good informants in a connectivist model. thoughtful
Picture of Jon Kruithof
Re: What is connectivism
by Jon Kruithof - Tuesday, 9 September 2008, 06:58 AM
  In my Searching the Internet course I teach for Con. Ed, I talk about finding out information about the author and the importance of doing a little digging, I think the criteria I set forth for those learners in my class apply: have they written about the issue before, does the information ring true (is what is being written about also something you have experienced), can you find two other sources that say the same thing (falling back on an investigative journalism model), do you have a history with the informant...

Now certainly the waters get muddier when you have a conversation with someone who has no pedigree or history, that certainly doesn't rule out the idea that the informant is not reliable (to use spy terminology), just means that the information is unverifiable.
Picture of Kathryn Koromilas
Re: What is connectivism
by Kathryn Koromilas - Tuesday, 9 September 2008, 11:04 AM
  Hi Jon,

Yes, this sounds perfectly correct, I remember learning about this when we first began using Internet resources.

I have to think about the ideas of reliability and verifiability that you bring up in your second paragraph. I think the relationship between them is more necessary than you suggest?

Later,
smile
Picture of Pat Parslow
Re: What is connectivism
by Pat Parslow - Thursday, 11 September 2008, 11:47 AM
  I think there is also a question about the time-frame in which the learner needs to acquire knowledge. If they need a genuine understanding, it is important, in my view, to hear the voices of those who disagree, or who are plain wrong. This helps us to be able to recognise the aspects which distinguish valid sources from less valid - and thus helps build our cognitive ability to learn. Of course, bootstrapping this is a potentially risky business, and so it helps to have some idea of how to critically analyse the sources we find - I see that as being the role of the formal education, whether through schooling or parenting.

As for reliability/verifiability, I think that I can find a particular source reliable on a range of topics, without 'independent' verification - I read what they have to say, and critically appraise it. If they are frequently 'right', the reliability forms its own type of verification. I do not tend to trust sources which are deemed verified by many - wikipedia springs to mind, though I do not know how many here would consider it verified. Along with it, resources provided 'anonymously' through institutions have a tendency to show major flaws in my experience, including those which are provided in a peer-reviewed journal. The existing mechanisms of disseminating academic research are, in my view, merely a cut-down version of the trust network which can be formed through thoughtful application of the knowledge which can be gained by studying a networks responses to material.
Picture of Jon Kruithof
Re: What is connectivism
by Jon Kruithof - Friday, 12 September 2008, 08:15 AM
  re: Reliability/Verifiability

These two concepts are from the vantage point of a person who has no experience with the internet and no knowledge of the subject matter. So, in that context, they have no real sense of "right". In the timeframe that I teach in, we don't have the luxury of time to dive in the deep waters, just enough time to get their feet wet.

I would hope that critical analysis of information is something done at home - I learned it from punk rock records, perhaps not the most eloquent teacher, but at least I expanded my colloquial vocabulary as well.big grin

In class, I talk a lot about wikipedia and how it is essentially trust based and we offer opinions about the pros and cons of trust based information. Interesting to see how people are politically aligned when we talk about information on the internet.


Picture of George Siemens
Re: What is connectivism
by George Siemens - Saturday, 13 September 2008, 05:03 PM
Hi Pat,

You’re right. It is important to hear the breadth of voices – agreement, disagreement, and even plain wrong. Thoughtful and diligent critiques and respectful debate around differing views are the hallmark of academia. You’ll note one of our readings this week was a critique of connectivism by Bill Kerr. I think Bill has provided an intelligent and useful critique of the key points of connectivism as a learning theory. He doesn’t wander into the broader exploration of philosophical, political, or social theories, however. We’ll get to these topics later on in the course.

Concepts are understood in relation to others. For example, the following words - stars, stripes – have a meaning that is different from their potential meaning in isolation or in combination with other words (for example the words: black, white, stripes might evoke, in some, images of a zebra instead of a flag). And combinations of words/concepts may have different meanings in different parts of the world. As stated in the opening presentation to this week, networked views of learning exist on three levels. The conceptual level is what we’re talking about here. A concept is understood by how it’s related to others. At course end, we will have learners who say, yes, I agree that connectivism is a learning theory…others that will say, no connectivism is not a learning theory, and some who will say I don’t know. For each person, however, the nuanced nature of their understanding will be based on how they have explored, considered, and connected different concepts.

WRT to Wikipedia – Hans Rosling discussed this at ALT-C (I think I’ve posted this before…) when he stated: “we used to read Britannica and think it was authoritative. Now we read Wikipedia and know it’s flawed”. Which is a better mindset? Being satisfied with false certainties? Or acknowledging the sometimes frail and temporary attributes of our knowledge?

With this, I’m not suggesting all knowledge is subjective. Stephen and I had a debate on this a few years ago (I think it was hosted by EdTechTalk, so it’s still online). I believe objectivity exists (Paul Boghossian from NYU (I believe) presents one of the more simple, but devastating, critiques on social constructive views of knowledge in his text Fear of Knowledge). It does mean, however, that in all instances, we need to critique and be aware that the sources of absolute knowledge (Britannica, Universities) we seek don’t exist.

George

Picture of Barbara Dieu
Re: What is connectivism
by Barbara Dieu - Tuesday, 9 September 2008, 11:32 AM
  Exposure, immersion, reference from others and a good dose of critical literacy, I suppose. Just like in real life.
Picture of Jose Antonio da Silva
Re: What is connectivism
by Jose Antonio da Silva - Thursday, 11 September 2008, 06:11 PM
 

Hello Kathryn,

The question about the informant made me think a little. I am just trying to reply to some points as I read along. The messages accumulated a little on my inbox. So, someone might have addressed this issue in a different or better way. Let me try to express how I see everyone you connect to as an informant. I trully believe this is so, but what happens is that you have multiple connections in a connected world and the number connections help you decide and flag this or that information/informant as reliable. I think that the mere diversity and huge number of connections help you to make a decision on what to trust.

This is, in my opinion, a better model than one where you have a single source of information or informant designated as reliable. You have no way of checking and comparing the information you have received.

Kind regards from Brazil

Jose Antonio

Picture of Kathryn Koromilas
Re: What is connectivism
by Kathryn Koromilas - Friday, 12 September 2008, 03:42 PM
  Hi Jose Antonio,

This is, in my opinion, a better model than one where you have a single source of information or informant designated as reliable. You have no way of checking and comparing the information you have received.

I agree this, though would also add that even in traditional models one informant would always be seen as bad or inefficient scholarship.

Best,
Kathryn smile
Picture of Grant Casey
Re: What is connectivism
by Grant Casey - Thursday, 11 September 2008, 01:37 AM
  Hi Jenni a clear and concise thought provoking comment - The problem will be deciding which are "good" informants. For me the issue from a teacher/facilitator perspective is how to explicitly "teach" the key employability skill of discernment, where we all receive huge amounts of information from our connections and need to sort them into sensible meaning.

For many of our students, it's also about recognising what is "valid' to meet the needs of the standards based curriculum. George mentions in his "New Structures" article the challenges of "validating information accuracy and determining quality" (page 4), albeit these challenges are somewhat further down the track after the connections have been made.
Picture of Sebastián Thüer
Re: What is connectivism
by Sebastián Thüer - Monday, 8 September 2008, 11:04 AM
  Kathryn: I also think there are a lof of implications of connectivism for epistemology. Stephen Downes does a more "philosophical" approach to this. I found really interesting this post in his blog (specially the responses to Bill Kerr) : http://halfanhour.blogspot.com/2007/02/what-connectivism-is.html
Picture of Kathryn Koromilas
Re: What is connectivism
by Kathryn Koromilas - Monday, 8 September 2008, 06:10 PM
 

Hi Sebastián, I guess we'll get to talk about this next week when we get to the "Rethinking epistemology" topic. It will also give us time to do some more reading. If you have any more resources that discuss connectivism and epistemology, please do share them with me.

I think Stephen's post is interesting and entertaining, but (understandably so) too simplicist, in reference to epistemology anyway. I don't think knowledge is simply a matter of recognition. Though in some cases it can be - there are some things we just know and wouldn't doubt that we know, e.g. that we have two hands. But, going beyond our hands, the epistemic process is much more demanding and requires rigorous effort, research, contemplation, justification...

Anyway, still early on and thoughts are a bit fuzzy right now. (Though my thoughts tend to remain fuzzy. blush)

Hope to discuss this matter with you further.

Picture of Gabriel Abad
Re: What is connectivism
by Gabriel Abad - Monday, 8 September 2008, 09:45 AM
  When I studied literary criticism and what literature is (another elusive definition) we spent quite some time discussing E.M. Forster's "Only connect" dictum. The penny/cent dropped immediately for me, because when I discovered/learnt something new I had a funny feeling as if I could feel the synapsis flashing inside my skull, almost like in cartoons where the idea will light up a bulb wink

Therefore, I was very intrigued with the theory. After reading Reading Knowledge, I came to think more and more about it and I ended up here!
Picture of Mitch Weisburgh
Re: What is connectivism
by Mitch Weisburgh - Monday, 8 September 2008, 12:11 PM
 

Thoughts on Little Boxes, Glocalization, and Networked Individualism

First thought

The use of bowling as part of the “old” groupings is a red flag for me. My wife bowls in a league every Friday night. You know that this means? We can never go out with friends on Fridays. We can never go to synagogue on Fridays. We can never go away for a weekend. We can never eat at a normal hour on Fridays. We can never go to a play or movie on Fridays, unless they start after 9:00.

It takes a stubbornness and determination to live in a networked society and cling to a little box group (not to mention an understanding spouse).

But I think this points out an interesting point. In the past, geography was probably the most limiting factor in the groups people belonged to. In the future it will be choice. If you do not make an explicit choice, you will belong to groups for very limited timeframes; you will lose the advantages of long term relations and bonds. If you do make an explicit choice to belong and to remain an active member, you will lose the opportunities to form new bonds and interests that can be more exciting, especially for short amounts of time.

In one sense it’s like love, and in another it’s like exercise. There is an excitement about the first kiss, the first few dates, and the many other “firsts” in a new relationship. You lose those in a long term relationship; but you gain something else, something that is deeper. In exercise, we all know how exercise helps the body and the mind. We all, at one time or another, end up joining gyms and/or buying equipment. But, how many of us stick with the regimen for decades?

So, does this indicate that there is more need for us all to learn how to make better personal decisions and how to balance the advantages of maintaining course with change?

Second thought

As the article talks about the decreasing influence of space, I start thinking of my company. We are two partners, both working from our homes. In one sense, we could be anywhere, but we are about 35 minutes from each other. Thus, proximity must have been an influence, but is not now a limiting factor.

And, while we are in the northeast, we work with associates all over the US. But even then, these are associates that we have gotten to know at conferences within a particular industry, and then worked with virtually on projects. These associates work with us on projects where their expertise can help us; they are not corporate employees, there is no formal binding contract; yet we seem to work with them often; and we make some sacrifices beyond contractual obligations so that their needs can be met, as they also make concessions so that ours are as well. Associates usually start with a specific well-defined role, but their roles grow as our mutual desire to work together becomes more important than the specific skills they offered us at inception. And, with most associates, we continue to see them at least 2-3 times a year.

Certainly, the ability to share document (Google docs) and to message each other makes working in this disparate way easier.

And, we have clients all over the world. Again, we have met most of these clients at industry conferences. All have some US component. All speak English reasonably well.

How will our interactions and feeling of belonging to a group change as we grow?

Picture of Kyla Bates
Re: What is connectivism
by Kyla Bates - Tuesday, 9 September 2008, 11:52 AM
 

I had similiar thoughts as I was reading the article and then jumped into another arena.  I thought of my own decision to belong to a group that gets together once a week to drum.  We have been doing it for 10 years although the membership changes every year.  Each year is represented by 1-3 people that have stayed with it.  Our total group usually starts at 25-28 at the beginning of the year and ends up about 18-20 by the end of the year.  We only take new members in the fall.  It is our little box and yet because of that little box, we have a myspace and we are connected more globally.  What used to be a very local little box has tentacles that reach out to a broader world.

Looking at that model, I see more little boxes that have grown more tentacles and that the membership in the little boxes shifts more.  The little boxes used to be pretty stable.  Family boxes are more fluid, groups that get together do not last as long and reach out further than in the past. 

Picture of Bill Harshbarger
Is connectivism only about knwledge?
by Bill Harshbarger - Monday, 8 September 2008, 07:15 PM
 

In reading the posted material for week one of the course on Connectivism and Connected Knowledge, I was struck by the singular focus on knowledge, even though the larger context of this subject involves learning theory and related pedagogical implications.

One paradigm that has always been useful to me views learning anything as involving a rather complex combination of knowledge, skills and attitudes. Therefore, I am interested in what Connectivism offers in terms of how skills are learned and attitudes are formed as well as how/whether knowledge is obtained, constructed or distributed. Are skills and attitudes treated the same as knowledge in Connectivism or are they somehow different? and if so, how are they different?
Picture of Kathryn Koromilas
Re: Is connectivism only about knwledge?
by Kathryn Koromilas - Monday, 8 September 2008, 07:52 PM
  Hi Bill, I'm glad you brought this up. I was thinking - while browsing through the reading material and discussions - how is learning connected to knowledge exactly? Or rather is there a necessary relationshp or connection between learning and knowledge? One could learn anything, but that doesn't mean that one will necessarily acquire knowledge. And this probably applies to other theories of learning, not just connectivism. Hmm. thoughtful
Picture of joanna howard
Re: Is connectivism only about knwledge?
by joanna howard - Wednesday, 10 September 2008, 11:28 AM
  One paradigm that has always been useful to me views learning anything as involving a rather complex combination of knowledge, skills and attitudes.
I've used a similar approach but have focussed more on Knowledge, skills and understanding - that is "knowing about', "knowing how to" and "being able to make sense of". Although I've found it useful in teaching and learning, it doesn't totally describe my own experience of the kind of hot learning that keeps me involved - when that happens, it's more of a holistic experience involving all those three and also something unique and probably related to connectivism. It's what I'd wish for any learners I'm involved with.
Picture of Paul Left
Re: Is connectivism only about knwledge?
by Paul Left - Wednesday, 10 September 2008, 08:02 PM
  I agree that connectivism has a strong focus on 'knowledge' - I posted about what I see as this limitation of the theory a day or two ago. And it's an 'information-centred' concept of knowledge too, I think.

I do think knowledge (in the information sense) is important - indeed, some learning is all about gaining knowlededge - but as the knowledge networks in which we move become richer and more complex, forms of learning which don't depend on gaining knowledge will become paradoxically more important.

Picture of Ruth Duggan
Re: Is connectivism only about knwledge?
by Ruth Duggan - Wednesday, 10 September 2008, 10:45 PM
 

True, but as we experience things or engage in activities (such as forums) we gain knowledge of what to do or not to do the next time or in a similar situation and what/how others think. Which is in itself more than knowledge; it’s wisdom. Wisdom in being able to discern what is the best action to take for the best possible outcome for you, others and the environment in the current situation with the available tools. To me, this is what connectivism is all about – using networks (be they people, technology, systems, etc) to gain understanding about something that you what to know or engage in for a particular purpose (albeit decision-making).

It is so great to finally see technology being used in such powerful thought-provoking ways.

Picture of Paul Left
Re: Is connectivism only about knwledge?
by Paul Left - Wednesday, 10 September 2008, 11:46 PM
  I agree - although sometimes what we gain is primarily information which we may turn into knowledge through reflection on our own experience and context. So our overall capability has wisdom as one component, and one component of wisdom is knowledge, and being connected can help us generate knowledge.

I feel my constructivist bias is showing here smile

Paul
Picture of Paul Left
Re: Is connectivism only about knwledge?
by Paul Left - Thursday, 11 September 2008, 12:08 AM
  Ruth said:

To me, this is what connectivism is all about – using networks (be they people, technology, systems, etc) to gain understanding about something that you what to know or engage in for a particular purpose (albeit decision-making).

I thought I wasn't very interested in the debate over whether connectivism was a theory or not (see this thread) but on rereading your post I feel this sentence makes it sound much more like a method or technique than a theory of learning. But maybe I'm taking this out of context, Ruth...
Picture of Ruth Duggan
Re: Is connectivism only about knwledge?
by Ruth Duggan - Thursday, 11 September 2008, 01:35 AM
 

Hi Paul

Although I can see your point about being a method or technique, I would argue that it runs much deeper than that. Connectivism does define what it is and what it is not.

Connectivism connects people in meaningful contexts for purposeful reasons in a range of different modes and mediums. Instead of building knowledge from a single thread then elaborating on that thread by adding schemata for long term memory (as in constructivism); connectivism starts from any point and diversifies into many different areas. Therefore, how we experience and use those connections is up to the individual.

 

Picture of Paul Left
Re: Is connectivism only about knwledge?
by Paul Left - Thursday, 11 September 2008, 01:59 AM
  Instead of building knowledge from a single thread then elaborating on that thread by adding schemata for long term memory (as in constructivism); connectivism starts from any point and diversifies into many different areas.

Does that mean that
connectivism is inherently less suited than constructivism to a goal-directed search for knowledge?


Picture of Ruth Duggan
Re: Is connectivism only about knwledge?
by Ruth Duggan - Thursday, 11 September 2008, 02:32 AM
 

No, definitely not. I suppose what it does mean is that you need to be very clear about:

  1. what you want to know

  2. why you want to know

  3. what outcome you want to achieve

  4. what is irrelevant

These are skills we all need in using information/knowledge for informed decision-making. The key word being ‘informed’. That is the beauty of connectivism. We can connect and be informed at so many different levels depending on what we want out of it.

Picture of Lissa Hodson
Re: Is connectivism only about knwledge?
by Lissa Hodson - Friday, 12 September 2008, 04:05 AM
  And to add to that Ruth...it individualises the experience for the learner far more than Constructivism!!

Good to see you in form here!!

Lissa
Picture of Steve Mackenzie
Re: Is connectivism only about knwledge?
by Steve Mackenzie - Saturday, 13 September 2008, 05:10 AM
  Hi Ruth

Yes but is not the beauty of connectivism, that it takes you to knowledge you never new you wanted to know about. The learning power in connectivism is accidental learning. connectivism expands your horizons in ways you never expected.

Picture of Ruth Duggan
Re: Is connectivism only about knwledge?
by Ruth Duggan - Saturday, 13 September 2008, 04:40 PM
 

Hi Steve

I agree to a point. Interactions with others does make you dig deeper as you try to communicate and validate your thinking to others and, from that, you expand our horizons. However, in an educational sense, I would think much of this would be a planned experience for our students rather than accidental . Such as this course being about connectivism so therefore our conversations are about connectivisim and our understanding expands through these interactions.

Picture of Kimberly McCollum
Re: Is connectivism only about knwledge?
by Kimberly McCollum - Wednesday, 10 September 2008, 09:21 PM
  I think this is perhaps the most important criticism of connectivism that I have seen. Thank you for bringing it up. I look forward to seeing a response.
Picture of Bill Harshbarger
Re: Is connectivism only about knwledge?
by Bill Harshbarger - Thursday, 11 September 2008, 01:31 AM
  I posted this same topic on my blog as well as this forum and here is a response that I got on the blog:
Anonymous Matthias Melcher said...

Perhaps knowledge is more interesting in the context of connectivism since it applies to ALL three levels of Siemens' presentation, slide 10:
(a) Neural-Biological,
(b) Conceptual, and
(c) External-Social,
while skills are more related to (a) and attitudes are more related to (c) ?

The problem I have with this response is that if some types of learning (such as riding a bicycle) are only part of connectivism because they involve the formation of neural links, there is nothing very new about it.

I am prepared at this point, though, to accept the premise that all learning -- including how we learn to do things and how we develop attitudes, as well as how we "know" things -- cannot take place without the learner being connected to something(s). One sort of connection that I believe is important in learning anything is experience. Recent brain research has confirmed that we remember experiences, at least in part, by firing the same neurons in our brains that fired when the experience first occurred. This seems to say that we are physically connected to our experiences. It isn't hard then to say that when I ride my bike that my ability exists because through my memory I am connected to my past experience. The same should also be true of emotions and attitudes.


Picture of Gina Minks
what happens in the case of autism?
by Gina Minks - Saturday, 13 September 2008, 09:37 AM
  If we can't know things unless we are connected, how do you explain non-verbal autistic people who are savants? They are not connected, at least not in a way in which communication flows from them to the network and back. However, they sometimes have the highest order knowledge of subjects.

In cases like this, can we say that the knowledge is only in the network?
Picture of Gina Minks
what happens in the case of autism?
by Gina Minks - Saturday, 13 September 2008, 10:05 AM
  If we can't know things unless we are connected, how do you explain non-verbal autistic people who are savants? They are not connected, at least not in a way in which communication flows from them to the network and back. However, they sometimes have the highest order knowledge of subjects.

In cases like this, can we say that the knowledge is only in the network?
Picture of Maria Gomez
Re: what happens in the case of autism?
by Maria Gomez - Saturday, 13 September 2008, 02:06 PM
  Good point.
Picture of Pat Parslow
Re: what happens in the case of autism?
by Pat Parslow - Saturday, 13 September 2008, 04:32 PM
  Got me thinking there...

I would say that they must acquire the information from somewhere (maybe...), and for us to know that they are a savant we must be able to observe that they have the knowledge, so they do have connections, albeit of a different form.
If they produce knowledge (mathematical, engineering, artistic etc, depending on the individual) without acquiring it from a human source (which is a possibility I am not prepared to rule out, certainly not for the sake of argument), then they can still be a part of the network if they only feed in to it. However, I think the general case is that they probably acquire from other people, or through a proxy (see note below) and tend to not re-communicate the knowledge. That also still makes them part of a network - just as an information sink.
If they are not connected at all, you would have to ask how we know that they are there, I think.

(the idea of the proxy - the human source need not be present, but can encode knowledge in some form, such as a book or file on a computer, which I would describe as a proxy for the human source)

Picture of Gina Minks
Re: what happens in the case of autism?
by Gina Minks - Saturday, 13 September 2008, 06:59 PM
  I think they are only an information sink if the network doesn't know how to absorb the information they are feeding back into it.

But I also think they have the capacity to do and see things with the information they get from the network that people that aren't on the spectrum aren't able to do. I think they do something different with information the get from the network.

My daughter is on the spectrum, so alot of my ideas come from my experience with her.


Picture of Pat Parslow
Re: what happens in the case of autism?
by Pat Parslow - Saturday, 13 September 2008, 07:15 PM
  That was 'sink' in a technical sense of having inputs but no outputs - and yes, that is really 'discernable' outputs - I certainly didn't mean to suggest any degree of 'fault'.
I think we are all 'on the specturm' though - but I get what you mean. I have mentored a few people with these types of differences to the 'norm' and some of the talents they have make me rather jealous at times. The autism related conditions really do personify for me the idea of 'differently abled'.
Picture of Steve Mackenzie
Re: Is connectivism only about knwledge?
by Steve Mackenzie - Saturday, 13 September 2008, 05:39 AM
  Hi Bill,

A good question, just a quick comment on my experiences

When delivering learning based on connectivism my focus is on connecting people because it's the emotional connectedness to people that will help with the motivation to learn and gain knowledge.

I think i haveinherently assumed this is all partof the connectivist philosophy of externalizing, sharing and participating i.e being social

Need to re-read some of the connectivist material to gert back in the zone on this smile








Picture of Irmeli Aro
Ingredients of connectivism
by Irmeli Aro - Monday, 8 September 2008, 09:48 PM
 

Week 1: What is connectivism?

When perceiving what connectivism is, my approach is: How is learning when it is connective?

LEARNING: life-wide + random + trialogical + networked + inter-cultural + multidisciplinary + distributed + immersive + worldmaking + social + meditated + wayfinding = CONNECTIVE

These elements of learning will form key words for my concept map for the next phases of this course, in order to learn in a connective way, learn what connective knowledge is and to know more.

http://ioncon.blogspot.com/




Picture of Jos Fransen
Re: What is connectivism
by Jos Fransen - Tuesday, 9 September 2008, 02:32 AM
 

The concept of connectivism is really appealing and definitely makes sense to me. However, a few thoughts came up.

Are the presented learning theories all learning theories in the strictest sense, and if not, is a comparison useful? Behaviorism and cognitivism are just learning theories since an atempt is made to explain how people learn. Constructivism and connecitvism primarily try to explain the true nature of knowledge and how knowledge is constructed. As a consequence of that, learning is defined. It is not a big deal I guess, but it puzzled me.

Should we think in terms of replacing former learning theories by the new ones or should we think more about merging different theories? I think that there is no such thing as 'one type of knowledge', like there is no such thing as 'one type of learning objectives'. Different objectives require different approaches to learning, and each type of learning practice might require a specific design. For instance, learning to act effectively in life-threatening situations as an aircraft pilot requires the execution of strict procedures in a strict order. Those procedures are best teached according to behavirorist principles I guess. Constructing complex knowledge or developing solutions to a wicked problem can only be done through collaboration. Concetivism offers a useful perspective in that typ of learning situations. I wonder what the 'merging' principle would mean for educational design.

Picture of Maria Gomez
Connectivism is a theory that explains how the learner connects with knowledge
by Maria Gomez - Tuesday, 9 September 2008, 07:02 AM
 

Have you ever wondered why educators are the only professionals that have to reflect about their activity and have created a specific branch in philosophy, the Philosophy of Education? As far as I know Engineers, Doctors, Business Administrator don’t have to. Diego Rojas Ajmad, a Venezuelan professor In the University of Guayana, suggested in his blog Saparapanda that “because teachers are fundamental axels of society, in which hands are the destinies of the inhabitants of a republic, and for this reason society itself requires clarity and wisdom to exercise the profession.”

What I am trying so say is that finally an educator has come out and talked about knowledge and learning because knowledge and learning is what all teachers experience daily in our classroom, and finally we have a Theory of Learning proposed and discuss by the teaching community and not exclusively by psychologist , mathematics, neuroscientist, philosophers etc. (Papert was mathematicians, Piaget, Vygosky and Bruner, Pavlov were psychologist, Ausubel, doctor and psychiatry) and beyond the theory itself, this fact is going to have tremendous implications among the scientific community.

I cannot answer yet what Connectivism is, I am still connecting the dots in order to form a narrative of coherence, but I can sense already that it is Learning Theory that proposes an explanation on how the learner connects with knowledge.

Picture of Geoff Cain
Re: Connectivism is a theory that explains how the learner connects with knowledge
by Geoff Cain - Tuesday, 9 September 2008, 10:48 AM
  Engineers have theories of physics and math; doctors have theories of medicine; Educators have theories of learning. I think connectivism still has to be defined. What does "knowledge" "learning" and "information" mean in connectivism? In "Knowing Knowledge" objects contain knowledge (?). There is a lot to clear up and sort through here smile
Picture of Kayeri  Akweks
Re: Connectivism is a theory that explains how the learner connects with knowledge
by Kayeri Akweks - Tuesday, 9 September 2008, 01:11 PM
  Hi Geoff: Jen and Kyla are in here too. Fun stuff. Kayeri
Picture of Maria Gomez
Re: Connectivism is a theory that explains how the learner connects with knowledge
by Maria Gomez - Tuesday, 9 September 2008, 09:43 PM
 

Yes Geoff, they do have.  Each field of knowledge, as you said, has its own theories, but do they reflect deeply about the purpose and nature of it?  Because in Philosophy of Education we do.

I do believe knowledge can reside in artifacts. In fact my calculator and spreadsheets do for me a lot of math operations that I don't even know how to spell it.

Picture of Geoff Cain
Re: Connectivism is a theory that explains how the learner connects with knowledge
by Geoff Cain - Tuesday, 9 September 2008, 11:14 PM
  See, this is a problem with the writings around connectivism: any definition of "knowledge" includes a knower. The programming of a calculator is merely a mechanical function. Wikipedia, for instance, contains a lot of information, but there is no knowledge there in the traditional philosophical sense or even in the Merriam-Webster definition.
Picture of George Siemens
Re: Connectivism is a theory that explains how the learner connects with knowledge
by George Siemens - Tuesday, 9 September 2008, 11:50 PM
Hi Geoff (and others), we'll be tackling these issues this next week when we start our discussion of connective knowledge. I hope it's ok to defer answering until then. I noticed that you had posted previously on the need for clarity on the notion of knowledge, especially as related to non-human objects...and it's an important discussion for clarity and context.
Picture of ailsa haxell
Re: Connectivism is a theory that explains how the learner connects with knowledge
by ailsa haxell - Tuesday, 16 September 2008, 12:50 AM
  Hi Maria, can vouch for philosophy of medicine , and ethics in healthcare , and philosophy of health promotion... Have taught the latter and done Masters papers in the others. Education does not have a monopoly on navel gazing or reflecting deeply as to purpose.
Illich wrote about medicine as well as schooling.
(I always wondered if there was an education equivalence of the concept of iatrogenesis = hospital or health professional induced illness and suspect it would be educational institution induced stupidity.)

Picture of Ken Anderson
Re: Connectivism is a theory that explains how the learner connects with knowledge
by Ken Anderson - Wednesday, 10 September 2008, 05:53 PM
  Was John Dewey an educator?  I may be mistaken.
Picture of Maria Gomez
Re: Connectivism is a theory that explains how the learner connects with knowledge
by Maria Gomez - Wednesday, 10 September 2008, 07:50 PM
  Yes Ken as far as I know he was a teacher, philosofer and psycologyst.
Picture of helena ramos
4 th dimension of seeing the learning
by helena ramos - Tuesday, 9 September 2008, 07:33 AM
 
Connectivism is

another dimension of seeing and understating how learning occurs or grows .

Like in physics, where String Theory had to add another dimension (the 11th) to integrate gravitation , connectivism helps to deal with the growing complexity all the world of knowledge .

Here is my concept map

Helena Ramos


Picture of Mitch Weisburgh
Re: What is connectivism
by Mitch Weisburgh - Tuesday, 9 September 2008, 10:59 AM
 
Attached is a first effort at a map on how one learns and knows through the network.
There is what I know, what I have direct access to, what I have indirect access to, and what I can't find out (yet).
Hope it is helpful and that I get suggestions for improvements.



Picture of Lisa Lane
Is there an expansion of knowledge?
by Lisa Lane - Tuesday, 9 September 2008, 12:13 PM
  Several times in reading Siemens' work I see the argument that one element pushing an immediate response is the recent extraordinary explosion of knowledge. It has recently become overwhelming; so much knowledge is available that we cannot grasp it all, which is why connections are so important. It's a response to overload.

I do not see greater knowledge now than ever in human history. I see more facts that are more commonly available. I may even be persuaded to see more information (which I consider as value-added facts) that are more commonly available. But I equate knowledge with wisdom (or, as Downes puts it in What Connectivism Is, a belief we can't not have -- we know it).

Maybe it's just because I'm a historian. I have no trouble with connectivism as a theory, and find the argument about whether it's a legitimate theory or not to be distracting. I am more interested in looking at its core premises, and this seems to be one.

lisahistory.edublogs.org (posted way too much there already)
Picture of Pat Parslow
Re: Is there an expansion of knowledge?
by Pat Parslow - Thursday, 11 September 2008, 11:56 AM
  Just a thought about a 'belief we can't not have' - a belief, to me (and others, I I believe!) is a concept which we have no need for evidence in order to hold. Knowledge, on the other hand, is a concept which we have evidence for.
I worry a little about knowledge being something 'we can't not have' - because I am naturally forgetful. I actually see this as a strength, in general, because it forces me to work out how to derive the things I know from the experience I have (the evidence), but if knowledge/wisdom etc are things I 'can't not have' then I cannot have known the things I thought I knew because I now do not know them, and thus I can 'not have them'.
Picture of Sirin Soyoz
Re: What is connectivism
by Sirin Soyoz - Tuesday, 9 September 2008, 02:59 PM
  My understanding of a new theory enhances with my real life experiences. Here are my notes from the article that reveals how the prominent learning theories differ from connectivism.

"Connectivism and networked learning, on the other hand, suggest a continual expansion of knowledge. New and novel connections open new worlds and create new knowledge."

"The sheer quantity of information available to most people today is overwhelming. How can we cope with information in a continual process?"

"Technology is opening new doors. Technology is an enabler of new opportunities"

"Connectivism brings together concepts from different domains in a novel way. "

"Connectivism is unique in bringing together ideas of neuroscience, cognitive science, network theory, complex systems, and related disciplines."

Is connectivism an umbrella? Or a roller coaster?
Picture of Lorraine Mockford
Re: What is connectivism
by Lorraine Mockford - Tuesday, 9 September 2008, 06:04 PM
 

I am still working my way through the readings and do not yet know what I think of connectivism as a theory of learning, however it 'feels' right and my connections have been leading me in this direction for quite some time.

I just got off the phone with a new college teacher, suffering through that horrid first week jitters and more than a touch of 'fraud syndrome'.  In trying to have the best course possible for her learners, she is giving them everything she has -- pouring it all out there.  And as a result the learners may be dazzled by her knowledge but is there any learning happening?  Is there a connection happening where knowledge can be shared?  As we explored this idea, she started to relax and shared a couple of wonderful techniques she is using:  A really fun blog / discussion and the video of the week (this week it is from Bill Nye the Science Guy).  These are a couple of wonderful connections which will lead to new and different ways for the learners to connect with the material.  Tada!  Learning!  The next step will be to have the learners share their learning with each other.  Tada!   Consolidation!  She will get there and so will the learners.

LV

Picture of Steve Mackenzie
Re: What is connectivism
by Steve Mackenzie - Saturday, 13 September 2008, 05:28 AM
  Hi Lorraine,

fellow credit learner, thanks for starting the credit group discussion. Do you know the funny thing is for me in all of this is; When i think of connectivism i think of emotion not knowledge. If i am running a course based on connectivism may major aim would be to get the learners connected, the knowledge will ensue from the interactive and collaborative activities devised to get them connected.

but the beauty of connectivism is that you can do both connect with people and knowledge. i personally do a lot of solitary connecting to knowledge and for some learners this going to be fine, but for me getting the people connected is a key ingredient.

cheers Steve

Picture of WL Wong
Re: What is connectivism?
by WL Wong - Tuesday, 9 September 2008, 05:48 PM
  After my last encounter with learning theories of Constructivism and Constructionism, should I be agreeing that there is one theory too many?

At the back of my mind I was thinking about some class discussions around negotiated meanings in knowledge creation/construction. There are no absolutes, a few of my colleagues declared. The meaning of knowledge is shared and agreed upon and can change in a different setting and context.

At best different learning theories try to explain how humans learn and aid us in our quest and understanding. When the learning theories are put under the microscope, sometimes they may not all stand up to the being the perfect theory! If you start looking for flaws, you’ll find them.

Sfard's article "On Two Metaphors for Learning and the Dangers of Choosing Just One" (http://people.ucsc.edu/~gwells/Files/Courses_Folder/ED%20261%20Papers/Sfard_ER1998.pdf) (Sfard, 1998) provides a thought-provoking piece and challenges us to rethink our position vis-a--vis "old" and "new" learning theories. "The basic message of this article can now be put in a few sentences. As researchers, we seem to be doomed to living in a reality constructed from a variety of metaphors. We have to accept the fact that the metaphors we use while theorizing may be good enough to fit small areas, but none of them suffice to cover the entire field. In other words, we must learn to satisfy ourselves with only local sensemaking. A realistic thinker knows he or she has to give up the hope that the little patches of coherence will eventually combine into a consistent global theory. It seems that the sooner we accept the thought that our work is bound to produce a patchwork of metaphors rather than a unified, homogeneous theory of learning, the better for us and for those whose lives are likely to be affected by our work" (Sfard, 1998 p.12 ).

I welcome the discussions and debates around "Connectivism" and would like to consider it as "learning theory" just as how I have considered Constructivism, Constructionism, and others.

cheers
wl
Picture of Janice White
Re: What is connectivism?
by Janice White - Thursday, 11 September 2008, 09:24 AM
  Hi wl

I'm revelling in the discussions I'm encountering as I scroll down the page in this forum and many posts have sparked thoughts. However, I have randomly decided, yes, I'll respond here. I haven't yet read the Sfard article you mention but have read other literature offered by Sfard.

I think it was your reference to one unified theory that inspired me, as it appears to have been a long term quest of humanity to find one unified theory of existence. There might have been a slim chance eons ago, but the chances these days I wouldn't begin to bet money on.
You provided a quote:
A realistic thinker knows he or she has to give up the hope that the little patches of coherence will eventually combine into a consistent global theory. It seems that the sooner we accept the thought that our work is bound to produce a patchwork of metaphors rather than a unified, homogeneous theory of learning, the better for us and for those whose lives are likely to be affected by our work" (Sfard, 1998 p.12 ).
This made me think again of Weinberger's 'small pieces loosely joined' ideas and how it seems to reflect reality in our globalised but localised existence. The old catchcry 'think global, act local'.

Somehow, it often all comes together. I too welcome these discussions, but have resonated with the ideas of connectivism since I first encountered them. I wonder if what I love about them is that they are humble, open to critique and growth, and present a way of being and learning in our world today.

Just some thoughts,
Janice


Picture of Selena Chan
Re: What is connectivism?
by Selena Chan - Thursday, 11 September 2008, 02:36 PM
 

Hi wl,

thank you for your link to Sfard's article, in the dim recesses of my brain, I remember it as being one of the readings we were asked to study in one of my M Ed courses smile 

As an adult educator, one of the first courses we put our teachers / lecturers through is 'adult learning theories'.  At last count, the course content introduced about 20 along with another dozen or so 'learning styles' approaches.  The main premise of our course (& most adult learning theory courses I suspect) is to introduce a plethora of theories from which the teachers / lecturers can form affinities with.  This is because everyone teaches in different contexts, facilitating learning of a wide variety of content at various levels and with diverse student cohorts.  There a 'pick & mix' plus 'fit to purpose' philosophy has to apply.  It's what makes teaching an ongoing challenge that is always interesting.

So connectivism is another source of information that may be useful in some contexts, in the delivery of some content & with some students.  Another theory just adds richness to the tools that teachers have available to help learners learn.

Just to add the 'adult educators' perspective.

Picture of Ruth Duggan
Re: What is connectivism
by Ruth Duggan - Tuesday, 9 September 2008, 08:13 PM
 

Connectivism is a “natural process of association” from “connections formed by actions and experiences” (Stephen Downes, 2007). It is a pedagogy rather than construction or transference of knowledge and therefore does include attitude and skills as well as knowledge.

With this in mind, I think, as teachers, one of our most important roles is to make the thinking/knowledge/issues/context/etc. behind whatever we do very clear to our students (never assume that by using ‘x’ students know what it means or that they know why you are using it to demonstrate 'y'). By being explicit, students can make their own connections and develop vital decision-making skills that relate to their life in their social setting within the world at the current time. What more vital skill do we, as adults, need and constantly use than decision-making skills?

Picture of Geoff Cain
A funny thing happened on the way to the forum...
by Geoff Cain - Tuesday, 9 September 2008, 11:28 PM
  I was thinking about this idea about information/knowledge/learning/wisdom and I caught myself saying "how can knowledge exist is networks? It is not like I can toss someone an iPhone and a Twitter account and say 'come back next week and tell me something about Macbeth.'" And I realized, nearly immediately that I could! And the students would come back with more of an understanding than if I had sent them to the library. I am not really there yet on "knowledge in objects." But my own teaching and learning has shown me that there is definitely knowledge in networks.
Picture of Lorraine Mockford
Re: A funny thing happened on the way to the forum...
by Lorraine Mockford - Wednesday, 10 September 2008, 05:34 AM
 

Oh my Geoff...   Making me think before I have finished my first coffee of the morning!   Bear that in mind with my response.

Knowledge and understanding are shared through our connections.  By connecting through an iPhone and Twitter I may find the information more accessible as it is on the go, in my own time and place.  I will also have the opportunity of more connections as I can discuss the findings with my contacts -- sharing and working with the ideas.  Looks like learning to me!

If I go to the library and conduct research on MacBeth, I won't necessarily have that sharing and consolidation.  The knowledge I receive will be static unless I am lucky enough to find someone there with whom to share my newfound knowledge. 

I can conduct a very effective search for material in a library -- I use the same skills when searching on the net.  That gets me the 'stuff'.   The connections occur when I include others in my process. That is how I make the knowledge mine.   Just like this discussion smile

Time for that second cup smile

LV

Picture of Pat Parslow
Re: A funny thing happened on the way to the forum...
by Pat Parslow - Thursday, 11 September 2008, 12:06 PM
  You have caught a nice aspect of the nature of networks having feedback loops there, I think.

I can read a book, and absorb the information in it, and question its veracity. To check further, I must consult more books (in an entirely book learning world), and receive other, or similar, opinion. I then have to way the ideas in the books (or my interpretation of them, in fact) with my experience (which heavily affects the interpretation I make of them) and decide whether they form enough evidence to be warranted as 'true'.

In a connectivist model, I can get the information from a book or a person. I can quickly and easily ask others whether my interpretation of that is the same as theirs - indeed, if I share the exciting new knowledge I have gained, it will spur many to comment without me explicitly seeking the feedback. Because of the tight feedback loops, I am likely to end up with a firm decision on the validity of my interpreted view much faster than I would have done in book-world.

There is a potential problem, of course. It may be that everyone I connect with has the same mis-interpretation (either in common with me, or against my view) and the feedback may serve to limit my ability to embed the knowledge within my own conceptual framework. It is also possible for positive feedback loops to form, which can produce fantasy-worlds in a short period of time. Positive feedback (in the cybernetic sense, not in the 'you did well' sense) can get you to an end condition very quickly, but are less stable than negative feedback loops (which naturally tend to restore things to the status quo). Hype about diet in the media is an example of positive feedback loops which springs readily to mind.

In many systems, fast response times tend to instability - and this is my major concern regarding a fully connected world. Should we build in some sort of delays?
Picture of Scott Chambers
Re: A funny thing happened on the way to the forum...
by Scott Chambers - Thursday, 11 September 2008, 08:29 PM
  FANTASTIC. Feedback loops, I had never thought of this aspect as learning.

What I am enjoying here is the fact we are seeing both the positive and negative implications here.

I would describe this as a sort of informational growing culture. It allows for the growth of an idea/concept/understanding, but has no control or moral imperative to discern from information and MIS-information.

So does that mean that our role as educators is shifting from direct transfer of knowledge ( so to speak) to teaching skills of how to discern and a fundamental subject knowledge to base that critical eye?

Picture of Pat Parslow
Re: A funny thing happened on the way to the forum...
by Pat Parslow - Friday, 12 September 2008, 05:39 AM
  So does that mean that our role as educators is shifting from direct transfer of knowledge ( so to speak) to teaching skills of how to discern and a fundamental subject knowledge to base that critical eye?

I hope so smile
I think I have always viewed the former as training, and the latter as education. My primary school provided education, along with a reasonable amount of fact based training which is necessary to support it. My secondary school provided less education and more training, presumably because they had to get us good results in examinations - but even then, those I regarded as my best teachers provided plentiful opportunities for enquiring thought and reflective thinking. Though I hate to say it, I think my university experiences have been even more based on the training concept, with the education coming through informal contact with other students and staff in a non-work role. However, it is also fair to say that even at university there are those who promote education, even if they might make it clearer on occasion.

This has just made me recall a conversation I had about 6 years ago, about the nature of education - we were defining the differences between education and training over a pint or five, and we identified that the critical thinking comes about through comparing views of concepts and processes with others. So I guess I have viewed education as a connectivist process for a long time, whilst training is delivered by instructionist, constructionist and other pedagogies. Perhaps this is a distinction worth drawing out and discussing in another thread?
Picture of Jon Kruithof
Re: A funny thing happened on the way to the forum...
by Jon Kruithof - Friday, 12 September 2008, 08:24 AM
  It may be useful to make a separate thread for the various teaching/training/facilitation distinctions for those who don't have some background in educational theory.

I will say that I agree with your assessment of education/training. I'll also throw in there that your university experience may be from a series of profs who were unwilling or unable to decentralize the power in the classroom for whatever reason.
Picture of Bradley Shoebottom
Re: A funny thing happened on the way to the forum...
by Bradley Shoebottom - Friday, 12 September 2008, 06:14 AM
 

Scott,

Exactly, With the scope of the publioshed world, a teacher and even profesor can not know everything about their specialized field (just think of what is out there in a foreign language literature). So our role is to teach how to research, crtically analyze, and write/present. The subject matter just so happens to be the vehicle of discussion for the day.

Picture of Geoff Cain
Re: A funny thing happened on the way to the forum...
by Geoff Cain - Saturday, 13 September 2008, 06:59 PM
  Yes! Exactly! And what is remarkable about the Connectivist model (as I am coming to understand it) is that the bibliocentric teaching might just be hindering people from really figuring out something like Macbeth. I mean, we are living in exciting times when a student can email a couple of directors in different countries, a dramaturg from the RSC and maybe Ashland, and a handful of actors and get a perspective on a play that would not be possible from the library. There are people who have those networking skills and those who don't - this is what lead me to first think of Connectivism as a learning modality - but I am finding first hand in our classes at Tacoma that these skills can be taught. They need to be taught. If they can be taught, then there are ways that are more effective than others, there are meta-skills that are more important than others, and these are the kinds of things that I am hoping we can identify.
Picture of Lissa Hodson
Re: A funny thing happened on the way to the forum...
by Lissa Hodson - Friday, 12 September 2008, 04:17 AM
  Lorraine, great effort on the first cup of coffee!!wink

To build on your notion of connecting, it reminded me of a very simple yet compelling story from our school. Now this is using networks on a very small scale and in a very simple way. It was through homework. Instead of a teacher giving homework for students to do individually (will most likely get 25-30) responses of the same calibre....the teacher insteads posts it in a discussion forum. Guess what happens when students connect and share...same as in here...the first response is the same as the traditional one and every response thereafter builds and creates greater meaning for everybody who gets involved...they make it their own knowledge.Sure beats the traditional way and it comforts me that what I believe to be 21st Century skills are being enhanced and developed in our students.

Thanks for sparking that thought for me.

L
Picture of Grant Casey
Re: A funny thing happened on the way to the forum...
by Grant Casey - Thursday, 11 September 2008, 01:50 AM
  Lovely thought Geoff. So is the issue the tools and gee whiz what can I do with his iPhone or Twitter account eg collect more information and collect more opinions.

Or, as teachers, do we help our students to sift, incorporate a range of ideas and then somehow validate what they've "learnt" against some set of criteria?
Picture of Simon Higginson
Re: What is connectivism
by Simon Higginson - Tuesday, 9 September 2008, 11:29 PM
  Connectivism

- the art of being able to access the knowledge you need* as a result of your connectedness.

- the art of being able to build on your existing knowledge** as a result of your connectedness.

- the art of being able to see the relationships between the of different elements*** of your connectednes.

*Don't possess

**including skills and experience

***Work, Education, Social

Sorry. Just thinking out loud.
Picture of Ken Anderson
Re: What is connectivism
by Ken Anderson - Wednesday, 10 September 2008, 06:00 PM
 

Hi.

I appreciate your thoughts, and wonder how the theory of connectivism is different from the theory of social constructivism.

Picture of Mohamed Amine Chatti
Re: What is connectivism
by Mohamed Amine Chatti - Wednesday, 10 September 2008, 07:12 AM
  Hi all,
I wrote in my blog about my view of connectivism and would dearly love to hear your thoughts on that.
Picture of Emanuela Zibordi
Re: What is connectivism
by Emanuela Zibordi - Wednesday, 10 September 2008, 10:56 AM
 

This is what I published on my blog. I'm little bit confused about all the text to read - I can't choose now what is important for me - and the colleagues posts. So I decided to go on slowly step by step. smile

"CCK08 - Week 1 - part I

A few weeks before starting the course, I read (and translated) some documents that were available on the CCK blog. In particular I focused on two Mr Downes texts:

-An Introduction to Connective Knowledge;

-Learning Networks and Connective Knowledge;

It is because I wanted to get an idea from the conceptual point of view, what is the meaning of Connectivism. (C.) In particular I have some considerations:

I appreciate that it has been underlined that the “network of networks” (brain), cannot be compared to a computer and how the human learning considerably differs from the computational process that takes place in the memory of a PC. The process of teaching/learning is much more complex and its simplification (reduction in computational operations) is a background error.

I agree with everything that was expressed by Mr. Downes but what surprised me was that, intervening with rational arguments, supported by most of his logic, he overlooked an equally important component involved in learning and interaction, which is emotional. I refer in particular to the concept of salience. Our perception, often unconscious and attention are strongly determined by the degree of motivation that we have against an object; if we need information, we try all channels to be able to obtain it. The same thing, in my opinion, happens for connective knoledge. It is considerably easier if you create an interactive level of gratifying interactions, where the person gets a role recognised and appreciated. It’s also essential to maintain relationships and create effective networks, as it is in our neural network.

I don’t have the intellectual tools and competence to determine whether C. is a new theory of learning, overall now I’m tending to try some kind of C. with my students, but I think that basically a sort of C. has always existed (see the example of 747, going back in time, even the construction of the Colosseum in ancient Rome has prompted a necessary connective knowledge). At the moment I would say that C. is certainly a "strategic competence", or a “meta-competence”, which is certainly enhanced by the use of new technologies that allow for connectivity entirely original, never seen before on the Earth. But the request of the degree of connectivity cannot only give priority to cognitive products (the new knowledge) but, if it wants to feed itself and grow, it must give care to the players."

Stephen Downes portrait
Re: What is connectivism
by Stephen Downes - Wednesday, 10 September 2008, 02:59 PM
  I think that the comment on emotion is a good one. There are aspects of cognition we are not dealing with directly in our initial statements of the theory. Reading work like LeDoux's The Synaptic Self makes it clear that there are various subsystems that respond to different types of influences. LeDoux's own specialization is fear, so we see that used as an example in much of his work.

That said - and this ios a bit of a simplification, which I'll allow myself for exposition- the role emotion is to bring the student to the door. The philosophy of allowing students to make their own decisions and their own choices means that they show up at the door already motivated to learn. I think this is recognized when you say, "if we need information, we try all channels to be able to obtain it." When the motivation is there, we don't need the various strategies needed to cajole and otherwise convince people to learn.

Picture of Emanuela Zibordi
Re: What is connectivism
by Emanuela Zibordi - Thursday, 11 September 2008, 12:59 AM
  Thank you for your reply and link. smile
I did a brief search and I found a book commentary on this site, if someone else could cover the topic.
Picture of helena ramos
Re: What is connectivism- emotions
by helena ramos - Thursday, 11 September 2008, 01:44 AM
  Hi Stephen

I find this subject fascinating, and I understand Emanuela´s apprehensions.

In my classes, water cooling contacts, chats and presentations of a subject (and they are very technical matters) , I try to involve emotional representations (Histories of the old days, incidents relating to lack of skills - anecdotes after all) .

Adding situational context to the content helps to connect items of knowledge and reinforces memories.

John Medina http://www.brainrules.net/pdf/JohnMedina_PsychTimes_May08.pdf, explained it very clear . Thanks Diego Leal, for reminding me of him .

Helena


Picture of edna talboy
Re: What is connectivism- Just another way
by edna talboy - Wednesday, 10 September 2008, 05:01 PM
 

Connectivism for me is yet another way for us to try to explain something we have all experienced on a regular basis for most of our lives, the amazing yet utterly mundane experience of learning.  It's very name implies movement, continuity, evolution.  Much like the intricate patterns of diffusion. 

What has been curious for me as I read some of the exchanges and readings is our almost irrisistible need to be definite, to be able to "box it" in words, defined for the ages.  As if . . .

Thank you for the comparison of connectivism with other learning theories.  Reminds me of light through a prism.

And thank you for this course though it is a bit like being invited to dinner only when you arrive you discover it is being held in a 12 story shopping mall with part of the meal served up in each one of the hundreds of stores.  I'm going to need a Tums by next Monday!

Picture of Lorraine Mockford
Re: What is connectivism- Just another way
by Lorraine Mockford - Wednesday, 10 September 2008, 07:26 PM
  Edna...   I love your description of the course!   That sums it up perfectly.  so what floor is the chocolate dessert on?
Picture of Bill Harshbarger
Re: What is connectivism
by Bill Harshbarger - Wednesday, 10 September 2008, 07:40 PM
  This has been an interesting first week in the Connectivism and Connected Knowledge course. Here are some of my preliminary conclusions from what has been presented and discussed so far:

Connectivism is a legitimate theory and not a fraud or front for "technocommunism" as some have claimed.

Connectivism seems to be an extension of other theories of knowledge and learning rather than a repudiation of them. It recognises something - the fact that we don't learn or know things in isolation - that has always been there, but was not emphasized until recent changes in technology brought it into dramatic focus.

There is some difficulty in defining connectivism, but definitions of abstract concepts are always problematic. One quote that I thinks applies here is about defining communication: "To define something as communication, something must be 'not communication', but to draw a line is to make a mistake, for reality is seamless." (Robert Scott) Basically, connectivism is about everything, but it only has practical value to the extent that we can break it down into more manageable (albeit artificial) concepts. Getting everyone to agree on how that breaking down should be done is not an easy task.

One aspect of connectivism that we will be examining later in the course seems to me to be the most significant element in the theory -- the acceptance of learning as a complex, non-linear system. That aspect, for me, has the greatest potential to improve our understanding of learning and how to promote it.

Whether knowledge is connection or connection creates knowledge is a less important distinction for me than whether learning is understood as linear or non-linear. Behavioral, cognitive and to a lesser extent constructivism, have all been predicated on a linear view of learning. Connectivism challenges that assumption.
Picture of George Siemens
Re: What is connectivism
by George Siemens - Saturday, 13 September 2008, 05:04 PM
Hi Bill –

Yes, connectivism is an extension rather than repudiation of other theories. Learning theories do have points where they overlap. At least when they start. As they progress, move to practical implementation, build a research body, sometimes theories evolve into repudiation of what existed before.

You mention connectivism as being about everything. Being connected certainly does impact communication and all areas of life. While we could generalize connectivism – and give it a much cooler name and market it on emerging tech conferences J - I’m concerned with it as a learning theory. And for the most part in this course, confine my focus to this aspect. This is not to deny that there may be other topics to consider. For the sake of not making a theory do more than it can, however, I’ll try and focus on the learning aspect!

George

Picture of Luca Teodori
Re: What is connectivism
by Luca Teodori - Wednesday, 10 September 2008, 08:03 PM
 

I think there is a deep connection between connectivism and ecology. Both of them, indeed, rely on the concept of networks. Ecosystems do not exist as objects, they can only be defined in terms of relationships. And the overall "quality" of an ecosystem (e.g. its capacity to sustain biodiversity) relies on the contribution of each individial member of the species and the qualities of its medium in a way that can only be interpreted as "synergetic" and bound to the concepts of rithm, cycles and equilibrium.

From this perspective, learning could be interpreted as the changing quality of the relationships of each node with respect to the rest of the network. Each node can make the network more responsive to changes in the environment (or capable to exploit new patterns) by changing its own relationship with other members of the community, and this can only happen via what I call "self-education". Self-education could be initiated either by the network - moving towards a new overall pattern - or by the node itself.

I think that the concepts of group, equilibrium, rythm, cycle and self-education are of the essence for connectivism as a learning theory.

Picture of irlan  rahardja
Re: What is connectivism
by irlan rahardja - Thursday, 11 September 2008, 03:50 AM
 

Hi George,

It is easy for all fo us  to say that " Connectivism"  is one of the newest learning theory. Ok yes, It is OK well done. But we are still wondering that the TPACK (2006) from Punya Mishra, and Matthew J. Koehler has not been mastered yet (the wicked problem). How people in this real world know knowledge as they have to work in the era of  "knowledge workers" not "skilled workers". So how long do we have to debate that this will be the need of the educator today. In my opinion, it seems to be all right as the person is responsible for what he does and thinks. Good !

Irlan rahardja - indonesia  

Picture of David McGeary
Re: What is connectivism
by David McGeary - Thursday, 11 September 2008, 08:52 AM
  I read an interesting article in WIRED yesterday talking about the idea of a superorganism (think: bee hive) and how this collective group experiences evolutionary changes in a very significant way. Evolutionary trends are driven by the needs of the group and are not largely impacted by changes in the individual. In a small segment of the reading, there was an almost cursory allusion made to the formation of expansive digital social networks and the startling similarity that these networks share with the superorganism behavior as it responds to challenges, changes and opportunities in an environment. Given all of this, it seems to me that connectivism is a spoke in the wheel of human evolution - if not the wheel itself. If I can find the exact reference article, I will post it for any who may be interested.

I'm off to board up my house for Hurricane Ike. Take care. smile
Stephen Downes portrait
Re: What is connectivism
by Stephen Downes - Thursday, 11 September 2008, 12:25 PM
  Evolution is a special case of network behaviour. It is based on some concept of entity survival and propagation. Fitness of entities may or may not be based on connections with other entities.

There's no such thing, either in evolution or in network theory, of the 'needs of the group'.
Picture of Pat Parslow
Re: What is connectivism
by Pat Parslow - Thursday, 11 September 2008, 04:47 PM
  There's no such thing, either in evolution or in network theory, of the 'needs of the group'.

In the case of evolution, I think that assertion requires some justification. I know there is a predominant view that individualism is all, and at the extreme level the selfish gene idea suggests that there is no such thing as the needs of the individual, but I would be surprised if you can prove to me that there is definitely no such thing as the needs of the group - indeed, I would be surprised if you can prove it not to exist for the network too, unless you choose to define the network to exclude the possibility.
Stephen Downes portrait
Re: What is connectivism
by Stephen Downes - Thursday, 11 September 2008, 07:08 PM
  Well, OK...

My issue with the term 'need' is that is very often a fiction, even when it is ascribed to entities we would ordinarily think have needs.

Take a tree, for example. Does a tree have needs? On the one had, we want to say that it does - it needs water, it needs air. On the other hand, a 'need' is an emotional state, an intentional state - it is tied in with the concept of wants and goals. But when we say that a tree 'wants' water, then we are probably anthropomorphizing.

When we apply the same thinking to a collection of entities, such as a society, the matter becomes even less clear. We can, on the one hand, say that a society has needs - like, say, air and water, just like a tree. But to say that a society 'wants' these things is anthropomorphic as well. We are pretending that a society is a perswon - but a society is not a person.

Moreover, with a society, we have the additional problem of distinguishing those needs that properly attach to a society, and those that attach to the individuals in the society. Air and water, for example, are needed by individuals. But is there anything that is needed by a society, but not but the individuals?

There's no shortage of candidates. People talk about the need for social order, for a common vision. Rousseau talked about the 'general will', Adam Smith talked about the 'invisible hand'. But it is very unclear that the putative 'needs' are actually expressions of the desires of some subset of society, and not the entity as a whole.

I think it's really difficult to talk about needs, even with respect to individuals. If we remove the intentionality - if we remove the 'want' and the 'goal', then the talk of needs becomes very trite, along the lines of describing the material inputs for a physical system. But if we begin talking about intentional attributes, then the reason becomes very unclear - and certainly not clear enough to apply it to a society as a whole.

I think we can talk about the properties of collections of individuals. But I think that this talk needs to be cautious and careful. I think that most of the properties will be epiphenomenal - that is, they will be observable, perceivable, but without causal import. I think that we need a different language to talk about the properties of the collection. If a society moves in what appears to be an intentional manner - if it appears to express a need - we need to examine what is happening dispassionately, and not leap to the easy analogy that society is expressing a need.

I hope that helps.








Picture of Pat Parslow
Re: What is connectivism
by Pat Parslow - Friday, 12 September 2008, 04:14 AM
  Hi Stephen,

Thanks for the clarifications. I think I tend to view 'need' as literal, and often correct people (especially young ones) who use it in place of 'want' (I often correct a lot of things, and it is a habit I am working towards getting out of!). I would agree that a tree, or person, has certain needs. A person has 'wants' because these are the things they desire, which implies a level of goal setting and self awareness. In general, we do not ascribe these attributes to plants, or often to other animals, unless we are anthropomorphising them.
However, with a society, or community, or network, the situation is less clear, in my view. If we look at various theories of mind they suggest that the mind comprises multiple modules, drafts, or in my terms, individual strands of identity. Because we are naturally pattern matching creatures, we tend to see similarity even when it isn't there, but in the case of comparison between individual and community, I would argue the similarities are very real.
In the individual, is it possible that any of the 'wants' demonstable in the whole exist without existing in any of the component parts of the individual? If not, then it is valid to consider a community as having 'wants' in the same way. I believe it would be compatible with Dennet's Multiple Drafts model, for example, to regard the 'wants' of the community as those which are foremost within it, either through majority or through a dominant voice and lack of dissent.
If the individual has 'wants' (or needs) which are not in turn wants or needs of component parts, we are looking at an emergent property in a complex system. In my view, it would be naive to think that the same sorts of processes which can produce these in the individual are not, or can not, be present in a community of individuals - if the communication links, and therefore feedback loops, between those individuals are sufficient. The individual and the community are analogues of one another, to a fairly high degree of similarity - and this should be no surprise given community is made up of individuals and individuals develop within community.
The epiphenomenalist view suggests that mental events have no impact on the physical aspects of the brain. I would argue that this is neither any more, or less, true in community. Conscious awareness of what we do lags behind our actual actions, so I have some sympathy with epiphenomenalism, but the same can be seen within community. The awareness of the community can be thought of as relating to a certain level of awareness of the consituent parts - in the same way that it can be within the individual mind - and this will lag behind the activities and actions of the community itself. Indeed, unless there is some spooky emergent property which allows the community to see slightly in to the future, this must be so because the community is made up of the individuals, and they only become aware of the actions after the event.
On the other hand, we certainly like to think of our conscious minds having control. If we assume, for the moment, that this is the case, what reason is there to think that there is no equivalent in a community, apart from our own egocentric view that we as individuals are the fundamental unit in the system? I know this sounds rather 'new age' 'universal consciousness', but it is actually really hard to see reasons for it not to be the case.

In terms of evolution, I would argue that the easiest way for social creatures to evolve is if there is an advantage to cooperating. Evolution is a wonderfully simple mechanism, and whilst unnecessary traits can emerge and be maintained, they do not last for very long unless strongly linked to a genuine need, or unless they are inconsequential. Is it reasonable to equate something which provides an advantage with something which is a need? I think so - advantage is a superclass of need, especially if the primary motivation (at a genetic level) is self replication. Anything which promotes this is, in effect, a need because it helps fulfill the primary goal - it provides insurance against a changing environment which, in the longer term helps to secure the continuance of the individual gene-line.
Bringing that idea back to society and community, there is a need for diversity. Having tightly focussed skill-sets within a community is fine as long as the environment in which it operates is relatively static, but when change is imposed from outside, a community will fail unless it has sufficient diversity to accomodate the change, adapt, and exploit a new niche in the future.
Connectivism has a major strength in that it recognises and exploits the diversity in a network. However, if dominant voices persuade the vast majority to think or act in specific ways, the diversity of the ecology is diminished and the network becomes vulnerable to environmental change. This is a problem with education as a whole - if you set curriculum at a national (or worse, global) level, whether through legislation or peer pressure, you are producing a system which is less adaptible and more brittle. Small errors also tend to become magnified over time, and spread throughout the system. Is it not reasonable to regard it as a 'need' of the network that this should be avoided? Or is the self-perpetuation of the whole not a concern for the individuals which make it up?



Picture of Joe Rotger
Re: What is connectivism
by Joe Rotger - Friday, 12 September 2008, 06:14 AM
  Evolution is a special case of network behaviour. It is based on some concept of entity survival and propagation. Fitness of entities may or may not be based on connections with other entities.

1) If there is no entity around, how do I survive?
2) It was better to hunt in groups than alone, chances of survival were better...
3) Consider a threat to the beehive, one bee is helpless, the swarm is a whole different story.
4) The darwinian trait of speech prevailed because communicating gave an advantage to the individual, and most possibly their group...

There's no such thing, either in evolution or in network theory, of the 'needs of the group'.

4) I don't think it is possible to separate the outcome of the individual from the group. According to Paretto, the global optimum is better than the sum of partial optimums, which would be an ongoing environment cast over a darwinian survival of an individual within a group.

In other words, even without communication amongst the individuals, although there certainly are interactions, it is impossible to separate the needs of the individual from the group --according to Paretto: the larger the group, the better the chances of the outcome for the individual, all other things equal.
Stephen Downes portrait
Re: What is connectivism
by Stephen Downes - Friday, 12 September 2008, 07:28 AM
  I should have been slightly clearer, and said "Fitness of entities of a given type may or may not be based on connections with other entities of that type."

Obviously, I was not discussing the survival of empties in a vacuum-universe devoid of all entities whatsoever. That would be a very uncharitable reading of my argument.

That said:

1) If there is no entity around, how do I survive?

By breathing air, eating animals and plants, drinking water...

2) It was better to hunt in groups than alone, chances of survival were better...

It depends on what sort of entity you are. Entities that are cannibal (and that includes human cannibals) will find it less good to hunt in groups. Entities that depend on stealth, surprise and cunning (and that also includes some humans) will find it less good to hunt in groups.

If you move our of the forest and onto the plains, then for entities like humans, it is probably better to remain in groups. since there's no way to outrun or hide from opponents. With the onset of agriculture this group behaviour is cemented as a social norm.

Change the environment, though, and evolution runs a very different course.

3) Consider a threat to the beehive, one bee is helpless, the swarm is a whole different story.

Perhaps. But if would be incorrect to infer from the properties of bees - which are very unusual, even for insects - to the properties of other entities.

4) The darwinian trait of speech prevailed because communicating gave an advantage to the individual, and most possibly their group...

It is not immediately apparent that speech is a 'darwinian trait'. Such a supposition requires that humans have evolved some body part (presumably a part of the brain) specifically for speech. But it is not clear that this is the case.

Certainly, the capacity for speech is innate - otherwise we would not be able to speak at all. But this capacity may well be the result of a happy accident, rather than a specific evolutionary adaptation.

Moreover, if we generalize to the capacity for communication, which, unlike speech, is a trait shared by many species, then it seems clear that this adaptation, like social behaviour, depends on the specifics of the species and the environment.

4) I don't think it is possible to separate the outcome of the individual from the group. According to Paretto, the global optimum is better than the sum of partial optimums, which would be an ongoing environment cast over a darwinian survival of an individual within a group.

OK, this is very unclear.

When you say "the outcome of the individual..." what do you mean? They earnings? Their life expectancy? And when you say "the global optimum" I am again unclear on what you mean. These are terms that describe a measurement, but we need to be clear about what is being measured.

it is impossible to separate the needs of the individual from the group...

Strictly speaking, this is untrue. An individual needs air in order to survive. But the group does not need air. Only the individuals within the group.

The group, by contrast, may need something like a 'common vision' in order to survive. But an individual does not need that common vision to survive.

At best, "it is impossible to separate the needs of the individual from the group" can only be understood in a metaphorical sense. But this would need some unpacking.

So I think there's quite a bit of clarification that needs to be undertaken here.

Picture of Pat Parslow
Re: What is connectivism
by Pat Parslow - Friday, 12 September 2008, 07:42 AM
  For brevity, numbered responses
2) I believe human cannibalism is found in groups which hunt communally.
3) If the case of bees, ants, termites etc is correct (I believe it is) then it undermines the original assertion (the needs of the many can, indeed, outweigh the needs of the one)
4) I believe that our complex speech capabilities have been strongly linked to a genetic mutation about 50,000 years ago, so it probably is 'darwinian' - if it isn't 'darwinian', what would be the explanation anyway? Is darwinism anything more than happy accident weeded out through selection?
4b) Without air, where is your group? Existing without its constituent members? The group needs air.
Do all the parts of an individual need all the things the individual needs to survive? Do mitochondria need the same things as we do, for instance? (I am not certain - they may, but I suspect they don't) - the individual is a higher order than its constituent parts, as a group is higher order than its constituent members, and this may mean they have extra needs.

I do think the needs of the individual and the group can be different, but I do not think you are right to suggest that the group can have fewer needs than the individuals which make it up - at least insofar as the individuals are requisite constituents of the group.
Stephen Downes portrait
Re: What is connectivism
by Stephen Downes - Friday, 12 September 2008, 08:44 AM
  Brevity would have been better sacrificed for clarity. Take your time, and make your points clearly. Arguments that may be obvious to you aren't obvious to your readers; instead of offering a one-liner, show the reasoning and make it clear how the comment addresses the original point.

Additionally, if you are going to make statements about, say, the origin of speech, please offer some reasoning or evidence for them. You write, "I believe that our complex speech capabilities have been strongly linked to a genetic mutation about 50,000 years ago." On what basis do you make such a claim?

And please pause to consider the statements you are refuting. You write, for example, "Without air, where is your group?" But that is not the proposition I advanced. I questioned whether the group required any air over and above the air needed to sustain its members.

With respect to the arguments regarding the properties of groups and individuals, I would like to refer you (and readers generally) to three widely separate discussions in the literature:

1. The medieval discussion of whether essence have existence. Koons. Does the colour red have an existence over and above all the separate existences of particular instances of redness? Why would we think so?

2. Gilbert Ryle, on the issue of the category error. Wikipedia. The university is composed of a set of buildings, but it would be a mistake to look for an entity with the properties of a buiulding that is 'the university'.

3. The Fallacy of Componsition. A brick wall is composed of bricks. Each brick is two inches tall. But it would be a fallacy to conclude that the brick wall is two inches tall.

In general - you cannot appeal to the properties of the members in order to draw conclusions about the properties of the whole. The whole must be considered without reference to the properties of the members. To do otherwise is to engage in an indefensable form of argument.

Picture of Pat Parslow
Re: What is connectivism
by Pat Parslow - Friday, 12 September 2008, 10:54 AM
  OK the longer version.

Cannibalism - I do not profess to be an expert on anthropology, but as far as I am aware, this practice has been often noted in cultures which practice communal hunting and are often described as 'war-like'. Whilst some of this is undoubtedly due to demonization of enemies, or the misunderstood, it seems to contradict your assertion that "Entities that are cannibal (and that includes human cannibals) will find it less good to hunt in groups."
You also assert that "Entities that depend on stealth, surprise and cunning (and that also includes some humans) will find it less good to hunt in groups.", to which I would just like to mention "lions". They hunt in groups, use stealth, surprise and tactics, which I think is a reasonable approximation to 'cunning'.
Thus, I do not find that your exemplars fit your argument. As a side note, if you had spent more time and space elaborating on your answer to Joe, it is possible that any misunderstanding of your point to which I have fallen prey may have been avoided.

On the matter of inferring from one type of entity to others, such as from the bee to other social creatures, I find your assertion that such an inference is incorrect to be troubling. Whether cognitively or subconsciously we model systems. The model is of a completely different type to the entity being modeled. We then draw inferences in the form of hypotheses and test them to test the validity of the model. To suggest that doing so is wrong seems to undermine most academic activity. Taking the bee and its hive as a model for highly connected communities with individuals taking on different roles, and drawing inferences from the behaviours of one to form hypotheses about the other strikes me as not only a correct thing to do, but almost a necessity.

On speech, a recent piece on the matter shows it to be less clear than the earlier results of which I was aware, but nevertheless it still appears to show that there is a genetic link. The New Scientist article on the FOXP2 gene expresses it better than I can - the date for the mutation seems to be quoted as being within the time frame of 30,000 to 200,000 years ago depending on the source.

As for the group/individual issues, and your supplementary reading suggestions, I suspect we have a fundamental difference, whilst, perhaps, sharing some pragmatic philosophical positions.

If your concluding remark were correct, the scientific and engineering practices of analysing a system in terms of its parts and how they interact could never produce a defensible argument, or analysis, of the whole. Now, I would argue that there are clear cases where the reducionist approach works. There are also cases where it appears not to work, due to complexity. The same holds true for communities of people - if you are somehow able to examine the motivations, physical and mental properties, and inter-connectedness of the individuals, it is perfectly valid to draw conclusions about how they behave en masse - the error comes when conclusions are drawn without analysing all the elements of the system. However, I would certainly agree that there needs to be a degree of holism. In practice, I always look to see what the system under investigation is a part of. No system exists in isolation (except purely platonic ones, of course) so in order to understand it and draw any conclusions about it, you need to have some understanding of the larger picture. You cannot, however, have a complete understanding (except for trivial cases) of a component, the whole, or the super-system.
If I want to gain understanding of, say, the mathematical relationship
2+2=4
I cannot do so without reference to the properties of the members. I do not believe anybody can, but I am willing to be proved wrong.
If I have a group of people who are all ardent football fans, working in some office, I cannot draw sound conclusions about how they will act when the world cup is on, unless I have previous experience as a wholeof this group under those conditions, unless I know about their individual properties. Your assertion says that I cannot use those properties 'is an ardent football fan' when drawing conclusions about the group. I assert that not only does doing so provide a better analysis, it also constitutes a highly defensable argument, as opposed to ignoring these details, which produces an indefensable one.

As for the category error, presumably you would argue that it is incorrect to look for properties normally found in the individual in the group, and vice versa. Certainly individuals are not per se groups, and legal aspects aside, groups are not individuals. However, they do share much in common, and can provide valuable insights into each others properties and behaviours. I would agree that it is incorrect to say that a group has a personality because an individual has a personality, but there is nothing wrong with looking to see whether a group has a personality because groups have many similarities with individuals, and individuals are observed to have personalities.

Dogma, I would argue, is not the friend of academic enquiry.


Stephen Downes portrait
Re: What is connectivism
by Stephen Downes - Friday, 12 September 2008, 12:29 PM
  First,

> it seems to contradict your assertion that "Entities that are cannibal (and that includes human cannibals) will find it less good to hunt in groups."

I was not asserting a universal generalization. To make that clear, read my sentence as follows:

"Entities that are cannibal (and that includes human cannibals) can find it less good to hunt in groups."

in a similar, my example regarding hunters that use stealth was in no way meant to imply that all animals that use stealth hunt alone - that would be an absurd and incorrect reading of my statement.

My examples were simply that - examples. It is quite uncharitable to treat them as anything other than that.

Second,

> On the matter of inferring from one type of entity to others, such as from the bee to other social creatures

My objection was not to inferring from one type of entity to another, it was an objection to inferring from bees to another. That's why I asserted that bees are very unusual.

Recall that the original statement was, "Consider a threat to the beehive, one bee is helpless, the swarm is a whole different story."

The status of a bee when isolated from the hive is very different from that of a human who is isolated from society.

Third,

> it still appears to show that there is a genetic link.

As I said, "Certainly, the capacity for speech is innate - otherwise we would not be able to speak at all. "

But that is very different from showing that the genetic mutation is question was preserved in evolution because it enabled speech.

The FOXP2 gene, the subject of the article you site, is also present in birds, which do not have a language. So it may be necessary, but it is not sufficient, for language formation. Which makes it unlikely it was retained because of language formation.

Why would we develop such a trait, then? Well, FOXP2 seems to be implicated in modulating synaptic plasticity, neurodevelopment, neurotransmission, and axon guidance. All of these favour species survival. Any one of them is a better explanation than language for our retention of the gene.

Fourth, you say

> the scientific and engineering practices of analysing a system in terms of its parts and how they interact could never produce a defensible argument

I am not objecting to the analysis of the behaviour of a system through an analysis of its parts. I have no problem with such a procedure, and as you suggest, in simple systems, at least, a reductionist analysis will offer a remarkably complete understanding of the system/

What I am objecting to is the practice of asserting that a system has a certain property based on the assertion that some of its component parts have that property.

The inference from the existence of the properties of the members to that of the same property as a propert of the whole is invalid.

That does not mean that you can make no inference regarding the properties of the members. It simply means you cannot make that inference from those properties.

Or as you say, correctly: presumably you would argue that it is incorrect to look for properties normally found in the individual in the group

You cannot argue that I am wrong about types of things, merely because "they do share much in common, and can provide valuable insights into each others properties and behaviours."

You say, "but there is nothing wrong with looking to see whether a group has a personality because groups have many similarities with individuals, and individuals are observed to have personalities."

There is nothing wrong with considering this argument by analogy.

However, I think you'll find that, on closer inspection, groups and individuals are very different, and different precisely in the ways that matter.

For example:

- groups are composed of people, but people are not composed of people, they are composed of cells

- the members of groups communicate with each other using language, by the members of people (cells) communicate with each other using electrical signals

- the members of groups have rights; the members of people (cells) do not

- the members of groups can live on if separated from the group; the members of people (cells) cannot

I could go on, but you get the idea. Groups are very different from people. Different enough, I would say, that basing an analogy about 'needs' and 'wants' from humans to groups is very weak indeed. It would be like arguing that necause a neural cell has an electrical charge, a human has an electrical charge.

That's not dogma. That's physics.

Picture of Pat Parslow
Re: What is connectivism
by Pat Parslow - Friday, 12 September 2008, 02:45 PM
  So, boiling that down to its simplest form:
Don't read what I write, read what I intended you to understand.
Bees are (virtually) unique in not permitting inferences to be drawn from them to other similar systems.
The advent of FOXP2 and the production of complex speech was an accident and such speech is not contributory to the success of the human species.
(By the way, most animals have language, it is just few that have speech or our complexity of language)

Back to groups and needs - you clearly state that individuals in a group need air, but the group does not. If you remove air from the group (for a sufficient period of time) the individuals in it die. The group now either didn't need air, and can continue to persist, even though the individuals in it are now dead (still in existence, mind you) or it did need air and no longer exists. You could abstract this slightly, and say the group needs constituent members, but I cannot see how you can argue that the need for air is not commutative over the relationship between individuals and group, unless you argue that the group will continue to exist.

This is not the case, necessarily, with all properties of the constituent members - but then nobody so far has suggested that it is. Individuals members may need money, but the group may, or may not, need it.

Once again I am left dumbfounded at your examples, in this case of the differences between individuals and groups.
I have no idea why it is particularly important to you that people are not comprised of people - although reductio ad absurdam they evidently are - each one being composed of precisely 1 person.
Language is a codification of information to allow transmission between entities - so that example falls down
Rights are a social construct varying between culture and community which evolve over time - the apparent cooperative nature of cells in an animal or plant suggests they are rather good at respecting one anothers' rights, evolved over time
members of groups can survive without the group if they are entirely self sufficient, or if they have other support mechanisms - the same is true of cells from an animal (or plant)

So, your case remains to be shown by example, let alone proved.
A neuron has an electrical charge because of the ion-pump channels and the surrounding fluid. Most protein membranes have the same properties - including those surrounding skin cells - it is just that they are not used in the same fashion. Put the whole human in the same conditions as an operational neuron, and I suspect that you will find the whole human has an electrical charge (though I do not know if anyone has conducted the experiment).

I am afraid I still cannot take your argument as a 'given'.
Picture of Catherine  Fitzpatrick
Re: What is connectivism
by Catherine Fitzpatrick - Friday, 12 September 2008, 02:55 PM
  Er, I guess you never studied the stem cell debates or you might reconsider the blanket claim that cells don't have rights.

I don't think you can fairly characterize cannibalism as a kind of bowling-alone thing. It's usually done in groups. It's a tribal cultural value, or necessity. It usually happens as a tribal function and would require reinforcement of the tribe for continued practice.

I think in other contexts (the siege of Leningrad) cannibalism could be solitary as it is an immoral or criminal aberration to what the group would usual consider moral.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannibalism
Picture of minh mcCloy
Re: What is connectivism
by minh mcCloy - Wednesday, 17 September 2008, 06:40 AM
  Or where cannibalism is seen as as immoral or unethical & yet the group determines its necessity for survival. I refer to the cannibalistic responses of isolated plane crash survivors.
Picture of Joe Rotger
Re: What is connectivism
by Joe Rotger - Friday, 12 September 2008, 04:16 PM
  >I should have been slightly clearer, and said " ."

>Obviously, I was not discussing the survival of empties in a vacuum-universe devoid of all entities whatsoever. That would be a very uncharitable reading of my argument.

>That said:

>1) If there is no entity around, how do I survive?

>By breathing air, eating animals and plants, drinking water...

Uncharitable? granted, but sometimes walking the extremes makes for very illuminating discussions. I envision it could open an interesting discussion around the origins of life...


>2) It was better to hunt in groups than alone, chances of survival were better...

>It depends on what sort of entity you are. Entities that are cannibal (and that includes human cannibals) will find it less good to hunt in groups. Entities that depend on stealth, surprise and cunning (and that also includes some humans) will find it less good to hunt in groups.

>If you move our of the forest and onto the plains, then for entities like humans, it is probably better to remain in groups. since there's no way to outrun or hide from opponents. With the onset of agriculture this group behaviour is cemented as a social norm.

>Change the environment, though, and evolution runs a very different course.

Hunting? I agree... I also have to accept that life is made up of the rainbow of colors, so one cannot exclude possibilities. I can also envision the lonely spider eating its mate, and all. And evidently, this has been a branch of evolution which seems to have found its niche. But, in the ladder of evolution, I see branching in this direction a dead end with slow or no evolutionary progress, compared to the entities that do network.

Woudn't it be appropriate to consider networking as one more weapon, or akin to having good supply lines, when fighting the much larger darwinian war?



>3) Consider a threat to the beehive, one bee is helpless, the swarm is a whole different story.

>Perhaps. But if would be incorrect to infer from the properties of bees - which are very unusual, even for insects - to the properties of other entities.

I think the networking trait of bees and ants is an excellent example which illustrates the power of networking by itself.


>4) The darwinian trait of speech prevailed because communicating gave an advantage to the individual, and most possibly their group...

>It is not immediately apparent that speech is a 'darwinian trait'. Such a supposition requires that humans have evolved some body part (presumably a part of the brain) specifically for speech. But it is not clear that this is the case.

>Certainly, the capacity for speech is innate - otherwise we would not be able to speak at all. But this capacity may well be the result of a happy accident, rather than a specific evolutionary adaptation.

Well... isn't evolution the consequence of a lot of happy accidents, which allowed their subjects to have a happier outcome: them are (or their descendants are, as in exist), the others are not..?


>Moreover, if we generalize to the capacity for communication, which, unlike speech, is a trait shared by many species, then it seems clear that this adaptation, like social behaviour, depends on the specifics of the species and the environment.

I'm not sure of the point you are forwarding. I understand that speech is a complex process, but, nevertheless, undoubtfully advantageous. Are you stating that communication is not necessarily an advantage to a specie? Which, I cannot see as a disadvantage, at even, extremely feeble levels of evolution.


>4) I don't think it is possible to separate the outcome of the individual from the group. According to Paretto, the global optimum is better than the sum of partial optimums, which would be an ongoing environment cast over a darwinian survival of an individual within a group.

>OK, this is very unclear.

>When you say "the outcome of the individual..." what do you mean? They earnings? Their life expectancy? And when you say "the global optimum" I am again unclear on what you mean. These are terms that describe a measurement, but we need to be clear about what is being measured.

"the outcome of the individual..."

You're right, it needs clarification. Basically, I'm referring to the individual's chances of survival, which is ultimately measured by the resources and opportunities that an individual has in his environment. Which, we know are also not distributed evenly within the groups themselves.

And, surely, this is quite a gray definition, and gets grayer when comparing species... But, we all know that many species are falling behind, to the point of being in danger of extinction.


>it is impossible to separate the needs of the individual from the group...

>Strictly speaking, this is untrue. An individual needs air in order to survive. But the group does not need air. Only the individuals within the group.


>The group, by contrast, may need something like a 'common vision' in order to survive. But an individual does not need that common vision to survive.

>At best, "it is impossible to separate the needs of the individual from the group" can only be understood in a metaphorical sense. But this would need some unpacking.

>So I think there's quite a bit of clarification that needs to be undertaken here.

Let me try and extend my explanation to clarify.

Paretto, demonstrated that under the same set of conditions (I'm simplifying a tad), the optimum of a group is greater than the sum of the optimums of its contituent groups.

Or, If A = B + C + D...
Then, optimum(A) > optimum(B) + optimum(C) + optimum (D) + ....

This is why, in economy, the European Community should have a better outcome than the old addition of the outcomes of the signatory countries.

In other words, a larger universe of individuals, would be wealthier as a whole, due to the improved distribution of tasks (i.e. no duplications, improved schedules...), larger pool of opportunities, and many others, than if they remained acting in their old compartmentalized smaller group structures.

Therefore, I see that the group is permanently and tacitly casting this group effect over it constituent individuals, whether they are aware of it, or not. It could be analogous to an environmental (or outer) effect: the more, the merrier.

And, although I concede that an individual may part from his group's (mis)conceptions, and that his needs are far from correlated one to one, the individuals cannot escape the cast of the consequences of Paretto's theorem, which is group overbearing, hence, ever so pushing for the alignment of their needs.

In any case, I appreciate the time you've taken to review my comments.
Picture of Bradley Shoebottom
Re: What is connectivism
by Bradley Shoebottom - Monday, 15 September 2008, 12:19 PM
 

Joe,

Re: 3) Consider a threat to the beehive, one bee is helpless, the swarm is a whole different story.

What I am about to tell you is a little bit in jest smile

Well, I am allergic to hornets, and while out for my noon stress-relief bike ride today (sept 15), a hornet got stuck in mey helmet at 40 kmph and stung my forehead. I am now suffering from a headache, shallow breathing, and an adreline rush. Let me tell, you, that individual hornet was not helpless. While he is dead, I certainly am feeling the affects. I have not brought my epinepherin kit with me on a dialy since moving to New Brunswick becasue the hornet situation is 10% that of Ontario where I use dot live. I also do not wear my medic alert bracelet becase the treat is so low.

What did I learn form this. Go out and get an updated epineprine prescription, wear my medic alert bracelet, and single hornets can make an impact and are not helpless.

Picture of Joe Rotger
Re: What is connectivism
by Joe Rotger - Monday, 15 September 2008, 08:00 PM
  Bradley,

Too bad.
I sincerely hope everything is going better with you.
Take good care.
Picture of Bradley Shoebottom
Re: What is connectivism
by Bradley Shoebottom - Tuesday, 16 September 2008, 07:16 AM
 

Joe,

I survived the night (the bee didn't).

I still stand by my argument now that I am coherent. The indivudal bee had "power".

Picture of Bradley Shoebottom
Re: What is connectivism
by Bradley Shoebottom - Thursday, 11 September 2008, 01:07 PM
 

After doing all of the readings I have the following observations:

George Siemens on "Connectivism: Learning theory or Pastime of the Self-Amused?" Language is technology but with ideology (stereotypes/filters). Language is needed to learn thus learning occurs when communicating. The more ways to communicate, the more learning. However, I do point out that it depends on the subject. Physical activities for workers that do things with their hands (assembly line work, manual labor, object handling) may not. I have seen simulations of objects that allow a user to see and interact with the object (pistol) in an LMS, but ultimately, the proof of the learning is the ability to do something with the object in the real world. In the tele communications world, my company runs web events that instruct the students (with whiteboards) and then allow the student to "dial in" to the switch and configure it according to a lab exercise. I agree with his observation that acquiring learning does not equal learning. Often learning does not occur until conversations happen around the knowledge or you use it. I found at grad school that I would acquire knowledge, and then have no one to bounce ideas off of. I could not be sure of having an intellectual conversation in the student pub. Using Learning 2.0 tools, I can validate or refute my ideas as quick as I can log on and find a group in that subject.

The "Teens and Social Media" report and "Media Multitasking among American Youth" offer interesting observations however I question the final statistics because all of the statistics revolve around self-reporting. As an information architect, I often find people say one thing and do another. I would consider this study as a "tentative" status. I would suggest a follow on study is needed where a researcher actually has to watch the teens do whatever it is they are doing. Obviously more expensive but using these initials stats, we can figure out the user groups then select a dozen for each group to really see what teens are really doing. If anything, if we could get teens watching 1/2 as much TV and spending that time doing homework (self-study or online), just image what the grade improvement could be! It would also be interesting to do a similar study among adults. My company does it for our workers to determine process improvements.

This course is "forcing" me to use some social software that I have not yet needed to use for my two jobs or personal life (Moodle, Google Maps overlays, Second Life, Open ID) I have used many of the others. The key to making the learning experience work successfully is trying to manage user names/passwords and learning the new software. The less time having to "waste" time learning new software, the more satisfying the experience. Thus, software should be as intuitive as possible. I have been spoiled by operating in the SharePoint 2007 environment for one job and Desire2Learn Learning Management System for the other. Thus, I have not been forced to go to different software for each aspect of social interaction that I need. My company is toying with the idea of how to create the virtual Office environment for the 50% of our employees that work from home/remote offices. Can SharePoint pull it off, or do we need to go to Second Life. Perhaps it is a melding of the two? (Sorry, there is no Innovatia island yet.)

Ursula M Franklin, a professor at the University Toronto, Wrote "The Real World of Technology" in 1998. She talks about the modern interconnected world that was watching a lot of TV. This created pseudo communities in which people become identified with events elsewhere in the world and become mobilized in some way because of that. This comes at the cost of the home community, much in the same way that Barry Wellman talked about the subject in "Little Boxes, Glocalization, and Networked Individualism" Franklin then goes on to talk about pseudo realities where the immersed person then becomes totally immersed in these new realities. This can be for the good and the bad. It is good, if you learn from it, but bad if it comes at the cost of other aspects of your life i.e. becoming addicted to reality shows instead of interacting with your family or friends. Note that Franklin first wrote this in 1990 at the height of the CNN effect and prior to the wide-spread internet.

Picture of Joe Rotger
Re: What is connectivism
by Joe Rotger - Thursday, 11 September 2008, 06:43 PM
  I've been having these very productive encounters at business meetings during the past few days, to the point that one may put $ values. I'm ever more surprised to learn that sometimes misguided propositions triggers in me (or someone else) excellent ideas, which I would have never thought of on my own.

In other words, connecting with other people shows me (and anyone else for that matter) these little pebbles, which I recognize as diamonds, if polished a tiny bit. So, over and over, I'm experiencing that these interactions with the network have an enormous value.

Couldn't encouraging this behaviour be a goal in itself?

Wouldn't it be enough to encourage our kids to connect to solve their problems?

Isn't problem solving the essence of learning?
Picture of Catherine  Fitzpatrick
Re: What is connectivism
by Catherine Fitzpatrick - Friday, 12 September 2008, 01:57 AM
  Self-reporting -- yes, the dirty little secret of a lot of online research. It really is a chimera.

And yet, at what point can you make a determination that a persistent chimera, like a Second Life avatar can be "called" as an objective subjectivity that at least has consistency?

It's like the theory of reflexivity. Beliefs about the stock market might be false. But when acted upon, the aggregate of all those people acting on this false premise in fact does affect the stocks.

Picture of George Siemens
Re: What is connectivism
by George Siemens - Saturday, 13 September 2008, 05:04 PM
Hi Bradley,

Ah yes, many passwords…many accounts. I was reviewing the thread where someone asked “what tools are you using”. Apparently, the short answer is: lots! Early adopters may find this acceptable, but others won’t. Google recognizes this. They are trying to do for the web what Microsoft did for/to the desktop. Recall the days gone by when Quattro, Wordperfect and email were all different applications with different drop down menus, etc.? Microsoft saw the opportunity in bringing those together to make life easier for the vast majority of people not yet using those tools (but were expected to start using them soon). Google is serving a pursuing a similar dominance online. IM, docs, email, groups, etc. And one account to rule them all!! Of course, then we’ll be right back to where we were in 1998 – locked in and at the mercy of a company. Who will then save us from Google?

George

Picture of Shirley Williams
Connectivism and Learning to Program
by Shirley Williams - Friday, 12 September 2008, 02:33 AM
 

I learn best with examples, so I want to reflect how Connectivism links to learning to Program. This is a very real problem for me I teach classes on programming at my university. One class has typically over 200 first year undergraduate students from a range of engineering-like disciplines (mostly Information Technology, Computer Science, Cybernetics, Electronic Engineering and Maths). The class spreads out with those with some prior knowledge to those where programming is completely new, but success doesn't match that prior knowledge, some students seem to "get it" and others don't. We spend a lot of time and effort trying to support the students who find it difficult.

So taking the ideas from George's presentation ("What is Connectivism") there are three areas that we should consider in networked learning:

  • Neuro-Biological
  • Conceptual
  • External-Social

For someone learning the Neuro-Biological is what is going on in their brain, the change of wiring if you will. I'm not sure whether the subject of study makes a difference here.

For someone learning to Program the Conceptual level is linking new information with existing information. For example: linking the concept of a programming iterative statement with former idea of doing something until it is finished, for a student who is new to programming; while a student with some experience may link it directly to the FOR statement they know in BASIC. As learners progress with their programming it is important that they link the early concepts with later ones (for example iteration and functions).

A person learning to Program has a number of people in their External-Social network: those formally teaching or supporting a class, their fellow learners, but also the wealth of people across the world who are knowledgeable about the subject. For example if a program gives an incomprehensible error message, the quickest way to interpreting it is often to copy it in to Google and see how others have interpreted it.

--

Am I on the right track here?

Picture of Pierfranco Ravotto
Re: What is connectivism
by Pierfranco Ravotto - Friday, 12 September 2008, 07:29 AM
  Hi
I have posted 2 comments on my blog, teacker.

Both of them refers to my own experience. Can they be an answer to the question posed (what is connectivism?)?

The first one is a reflection on my learning mechanisms, referring to a very recent experience: "In the last 3 days, the very first ones of the cck08 course, I have attended the Word Computer Congress ..." (read all ... if you like).

The second is a description on how I feel that my mind works: "Many years ago - 25? 30? - I read somewhere the expression "cognitive matrix". From then on ..." (read all ... if, as I hope, you like).
Sail Wozniak
Re: What is connectivism
by Linda Burns - Friday, 12 September 2008, 08:44 AM
  We connect to others (people) in our lives though networks. Our brain learns by neural nets connecting to other neural nets (networks). And now we are connecting using Web 2.0 tools, and creating our own personal networks.
Picture of Dani Lourenço
Re: What is connectivism
by Dani Lourenço - Saturday, 13 September 2008, 06:42 AM
 

Hello George, Steve and participants,

First of all, it´s not a contribuition to the forum, it´s just a question that I ask you to help me to answer! :O)

I am 36 years old and I "learn" everything I know about tecnology, educacional issues and so on. But, as a tradicional student, I feel that my way of learning things has changed since I started to deal with internet, blogs, e-mails and I began to establish connections. In my opinion, I developed an ability. OK!

The youngest, I think, born with this ability to create connections, as if it were an instinct.

Who are using this better? Me, that had learn, or them that had an instinct?

This instinctive process of making connections can be seen as a skill?
It has already been mapped the brain of children, youth and adults to see if there is any structural change of gender or something?
As teachers who have to take over the process will work with students who have this naturally?
It is necessary to help the students to transform this instint into an ability?

Another interesting point, when an adult starts its journey in the world of connections, its difficulties, doubts are very similar and some rare exceptions all have the same "walk".
With children and young people, regardless of their social class, previous experience and their age, the process is immediate! Why? This surprised me even more because of Brazil has social realities and opportunities very uneven ...
If I spoke silly things, (: O)) forgive me ...  
Picture of George Siemens
Re: What is connectivism
by George Siemens - Sunday, 14 September 2008, 04:03 PM
Hi Dani – no need to apologize for giving words to concepts J.

During our live session on Friday, a question was asked about the applicability of connectivism to teaching in the k-12 (primary/secondary) school system. Is connectivism only for self-motivated learners? The process of learning – at any age level – is quite literally one of creating connections. I have suggested several dimensions at which this happens – neural, conceptual, and social/external. You say that younger learners instinctively form connections. I agree. But so do adults. You may have learned to use technology to assist you in forming connections more recently, but your learning processes have always been connective in nature. Technology does not necessarily alter humanity. Yes, we form new neural connections based on the activities we are engaged in…but even this may have existing predispositions assigned.

The rather unusual case of Einstein’s brain – literally hijacked by the individual who performed his autopsy, but after decades, pieces were eventually shared with researchers – has revealed that he had very well-developed regions in his brain that were devoted to spatial/mathematical thinking. Parts of his brain were undeveloped, namely those that are used in language (Einstein was very delayed in learning how to speak). Did Einstein become who he was because of how his brain was structured at birth (related to what you term as instinct)? Or did he become who he was by the types of challenges he undertook in his life (what you describe as your experience of working with ICT)? The answer likely lies in between. Different people are born with different aptitudes/dispositions. Those are not set in stone. We can change our capacity for creativity. We can change our ability to understand math, and so on. Certain skills are best learned when young – such as learning a new language – but as a whole, the plasticity of the human brain, barring a significant defect, doesn’t confine anyone playing on the cards dealt by genetics.

George

Picture of Emanuela Zibordi
Re: What is connectivism
by Emanuela Zibordi - Sunday, 14 September 2008, 12:06 AM
  Hallo,
I can connect to Moodle only early in the morning (my morning), when America is sleeping, big grin cause some bandwidht trouble.
On Friday, I wrote another piece of thought.
I wish you all a good Sunday.
Picture of John Rodgers
Re: What is connectivism
by John Rodgers - Sunday, 14 September 2008, 08:59 AM
  Connectivism ends in ism, which implies to me it is a belief that translates into practice. Examples of other -isms would include environmentalism, Darwinism

In a learning context it implies a belief that the connections between people (eg. teacher to student, student to student, practitioner to practitioner) ) play an significant/important role in learning. This would appear to be innately obvious.

In the context of this course. connectivism as it relates to learning networks, the emphasis is on exploiting a network of connections between learners and teachers, rather than a one to many connection between the teacher and the learners.


Stephen Downes portrait
Re: What is connectivism
by Stephen Downes - Sunday, 14 September 2008, 11:30 AM
  phenomenalism
schism
embolism
mechanism
autism
Picture of John Rodgers
Re: What is connectivism
by John Rodgers - Sunday, 14 September 2008, 04:42 PM
  thoughtful yeah yeah...

-ism's in this context
creationism
Zoroastrianism
capitalism
communism
feminism
pacifism

Other words ending in -ism for some other reason.
prism
organism
IMS

no wait...the last one might involve a system of belief too.




Picture of Dolores Capdet
Re: What is connectivism
by Dolores Capdet - Monday, 15 September 2008, 07:25 AM
  Referring to whether the connectivism rejects other theories of learning, I think that this would be a mistake to do so. It would provoke a new rupture in the way of teaching. Already there has been sufficient and this has prevented consolidation of a valid model, adapted to new technological environment (there is not even a single definition of e-learning).

I think, for example, that Constructivism and Connectivism are complementary in many respects. And that should be the line to follow: Integrate, complement, expand and, finally, to welcome a new paradigm.
yo
Re: What is connectivism
by Carlos González Casares - Monday, 15 September 2008, 07:54 AM
  uy... so many messages... I don' t know if it mades sense really to say something more here, there is now an overload of information. But if somebody ask me in the futur what is connectivism, probably I am going to say... like Mr. Downes sayed connectivism is when you think that “knowledge is distributed across a network of connections” and learning is "the ability to construct and transverse those"... (Or something like that ; )

Kind regards
Carlos
Picture of Bradley Shoebottom
Re: What is connectivism? Week 1 Additonal Readings Thoughts
by Bradley Shoebottom - Tuesday, 16 September 2008, 11:47 AM
 

Here's some thoughts on Week 1 Additional Readings:

Maarten de Laat Networked Learning. An outstanding piece of research that shows how learning and human resources managementneed to be linked to provide outcomes based learning that results in improved performance. This is the way industry needs to go. He notes Human Resources Departments must think strategically what are core competencies.

Too often I have seen private libraries or companies create learning, hosted on an LMS that can provide content, testing, and progress (great for HR tracking) but it is not in any way linked to on the job performance, which is the critical indicator.

Stephen Downes The Buntine Oration: Learning Networks. Stephen severely criticizes the commercialization of learning into private for profit LMSs. This has forced me to rethink the companies I have worked for, because this is exactly what they do. My current company provides training in the telecommunications space because the original equipment manufacture recognizes training is essential, but does not want to do it, so they outsource to us. We listen to what content the learners what to learn, however, we don't have all the Learning 2.0 tools in place. We do recognize when pure e-learning will work, when mentoring has to happen, and when a live classroom is best and when you can run virtual classrooms.

In response to Stephens int ital criticism of e-Learning, much of the content was developed in proprietary tools that made it hard to truly interact with the content. We are now at a place with DITA XML where many of those concerns can be alleviated. OEMs are starting to realize the power of topic based authoring and access by the customer and feedback on a much more granular level than before. This goes with learning too. If the documentation is written properly with task flows etc, do you even need training courses? This is a fundamental questions I ask but would my company be out of business?

Stephen criticizes learning designs for packaging of learning. It was needed under the old regime of learning, but as I point out in the previous paragraph, new authoring and publishing technologies allow the user to consume whatever amount of info they want and that they can enter and exit the information at whatever point they desire.

Stephen promotes EDu_RSS and its filters for aggregating and filtering, but in a sense, is this no different than a learning design "filtering" out information that an "expert" has deemed more useful? I question his critique on learning designs and being too formal. What is wrong with having a learning design for people that have little knowledge about a subject? Why can't an expert design a "guided tour" to ensure base knowledge? Stephen says LEanring Designs are a dea end, but Even Connectivism has a learning design to outline what is in and out of the course. It lets everyone know what will be covered. It ensure a basic level of knowledge is discussed. Companies often want to know employees received training although I point out earlier that the lack of good HR performance measure tools mean they default to tracking training received as opposed to performance outcomes. I wonder if a decentralizedweb can provide the needed learning for performance improvement especially for web novices.

George Siemens Connectivism: Learning as Network-Creation offers good ideas that higher education and the corporate world need to move more to Web 2.0. However, George does not offer very complete ideas or implications for the Human Resources management role for performance improvement. In Connectivism: A Learning Theory for the Digital Age, George indicates that leanring is about outcomes but again he doesn't link this with the human resources function.

All in all, I found these additional readings to be even more interesting than the required readings with more "practical" implications.

Picture of Peter Rawsthorne
Re: What is connectivism
by Peter Rawsthorne - Thursday, 18 September 2008, 02:03 AM
  Connectivism is about capturing the lessons you need to learn from the cloud when you need them.... And if the lesson has a proxy, that's kewl.