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Hi Kathryn I haven't read Edward Craig, so maybe I've got this out of context..however my thoughts on how the connectivism model is associated with the concept of knowledge is that everyone you connect with is an "informant". The problem will be deciding which are "good" informants. |
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Yes, Jenni I agree with you. The real challenge is deciding which are good informats. In connectivism model the responsability (response-ability) for learning lies totally on the learner. I wrote my first post in my blog introducing a story of personal responsability which can be read as a metaphor for networked individualism. |
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Jenni, Silvana, you've prodded me to share. I get a distinct feeling that this view of learning being the response-ability is somewhat constrained by culture and the online environment. I've been living in Tokyo for 24 years, and find that communication patterns and learning styles often take for granted a very stable situation, and one where the authority and response-abilities lie with the "source". Sure, out in the online wilderness and in an individualistic culture, the balance you suggest for response-ability is perhaps warranted, but we have to be careful not to overgeneralize. (Which neither of you have done, by the way). |
 | Re: What is connectivism - cross-cultural issues |
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I've been living in Tokyo for 24 years, and find that communication patterns and learning styles often take for granted a very stable situation, and one where the authority and response-abilities lie with the "source". A very important point, in my view. I think it's essential not to be "imperialist" about theories of learning. There are valid and varied cultural assumptions in different places that need to be taken into account. The "respons-ability" isn't only with the learner, I'd say. The informant, especially in situations of power difference, has their own responsability or responsibility as I see it, in any culture. |
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It seems that what we are all doing each day throughout our lives is trying to analyze and decide upon "good" informants. And that we readily (sometimes not so readily - and various cultural constraints can sometimes be accused) toss aside "good" for BETTER. Connectivism reshapes formal learning to match this already intuitive pattern. (And connectivism happens all of the time without technology.) This is why and how the "pipe" is so important and MORE important that the content. The pipe is what people use to become inspired to change, learn and transform. The pipe is all about people changing because they have a pressing need to do so regardless of culture. |
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I think that you can spend too much time looking for 'good' informants. It's better, I think, to draw a parallel with 'finding a friend' rather than 'finding a reliable source of information'. You are looking for a communications partner, not an encyclopedia. I think that most people would serve just fine as a connection. It has to do with affinity and comfort - can you talk to the person. Sure, just as in friends, there are things to avoid - deadbeats, liars, cheats - but you wouldn't select your friends based on how authoritative they are, and neither should you so choose your connections. |
 | Re: What is connectivism - cross-cultural issues |
| I'm not sure I agree. I might have friends that I am attracted to because of their knowledge. Why shouldn't I make choices based on that? |
 | Re: What is connectivism - cross-cultural issues |
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There's a thought that keeps popping into my head. I plan on exploring this more within my first blog post, thanks for cmap by the way. but here's something I would love to get some reactions to. A theme of connectivism is the shift from the idea of Knowledge as a specialized and rare commodity, as per the industrial revolutionary model of education i.e. teachers with specialized knowledge have students gathered around them to learn because they are the only source available to them. Now in the information age, where the sheer mass of information out there is rediculous, as well accepting that not all that information is what could be considered "truth". I propose that by networking we are not neccesarily connecting to designated authourities or trusting in any "absolute" regarding authourity, but connecting to others whose filters within the informational onslaught we have come to trust. in other words, we no longer JUST trust in specific authorities/designated sources (although the spread of information within networks has to be introduced from some zero point) but we are also creating filters/news aggregators through our networks. Pooling collective resources so that the specialized information set that appeals to us as individuals is collected by our individual eclectic networks. Did anybody make it through that? |
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Hi Scott. I think I understand what you are saying. To paraphrase one part of it: "everyone has a story, something to add. As learners, we seek out the individuals that appeal to our requirements". Am I close? |
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| I wonder, couldn't this all go terribly wrong? I mean, if I'm the main filter for everything, including my own network, then my own biases and misconceptions would color everything I learn. And instead of that being countered by some kind of authority I've come to trust (through my contact with others in a socially-vetted, formal educational environment), I'm just kind of on my own to turn into a total nut. |
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Good point. I think we do place trust in some authority, to help guide us in our ways. On the other hand, free will seems to provide the opportunity to take the nut route, if desired! Cheers! |
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Hello Lisa and all, This is a very good point. Maybe it does not go all terribly wrong, it is just the way we are. We are the filters, but I think we do trust others to filter for us. I guess it is just impossible for us humans to be free from bias. I had a professor that used to say we align to the theories that make sense to us, that corroborate our observations and our experiences. All the best Jose Antonio |
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Freedom from bias, that would be predicated by freedom of identity I think (am sure I'll catch all sorts of heck for that one). I wanted to respond to everyone but especially Lisa who said "if I'm the main filter for everything, including my own network, then my own biases and misconceptions would color everything I learn." I would argue that this happens already. hence why some people pay attention to some news organizations. FOX vs MSNBC for example. depending upon your own biases you probably go to one or the other. "And instead of that being countered by some kind of authority I've come to trust (through my contact with others in a socially-vetted, formal educational environment), I'm just kind of on my own to turn into a total nut." The term I would like to question is socially vetted. Could it be argued that the networks we develop are in fact vetting the information passing through them? As for formal educational environment, professionally that exists for us but does that educational environment extend for the rest of the populace past the classroom walls? Loving the discussion guys! |
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I had a professor that used to say we align to the theories that make sense to us, that corroborate our observations and our experiences. Yes, that makes sense. And in the end, there is really nothing at all wrong with that is there? But for me, knowledge is not a feel-good thing. I want to "know." You know? And so I will be very anxious about connecting to good (valid, accurate) informants in favor of friendly ones. |
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Hello Kathryn, Maybe the way I said was wrong. I really don't believe any serious person would be willing to be surrounded by theories he/she feels good about. I really do not believe in such a hedonistic world. I have a degree psychology, and I love psychonalysis, which goes way beyond making people feel good and comfortable. Aligning to a theory is beyond being pleased by what it says, Our choices are generally more than skin deep, at least mine are. However, they do give us pleasure in certain way because they complement us, explain who we are and allow us to grow. Thanks a lot for pointing that out. It really made me think better about what I had said and express it a little better, Ihope. Kind regards Jose Antonio |
| Re: What is connectivism - cross-cultural issues |
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Hello Kathryn, We align ourselves with things that make sense to us or mesh with our experiences because we fear being wrong. By not challenging what we know we limit what we can learn. I enjoy the comfort of connecting with friendly informants, but would probably learn by far more if I would challenge those who are "unfriendly" to defend their stance. |
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Or even on your own with other like-minded nuts. I was thinking of a type of ghetto of learners, the ghettoization of learning and knowledge. Haven't really put much thought into this, but this happens even outside of the connectivist model, though come to think of it, with the advent of the Internet, I've seen a close friend explore a certain topic of interest with such fanaticism that is quite frightening. He seems to be connecting to all the most obscure and suspect research on the topic that interests him. The most downright fanatic presentation of the subject. I used to send links to studies linked to universities etc to counteract his "underground" or "undernet" research, but he seemed to stick to that and be completely suspicious of academic and scholarly work. Sorry, the word "nut" just reminded me of this friend... |
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Scott, I totally agree with what you are saying and made it through what you were saying!!(I hope). I guess the other point in all of this is having the skill to determine what you know and why you know it through the connections that you make. It is individual and it all comes down to the notion that even if you think somebody 'knows' in the same way as you, I can guarantee that they don't. Do you think that even when we had the teacher as the font of all knowledge that each of the students had exactly the same knowledge or did they also have all those influencing factors of culture, perception, emotion etc etc?? Thanks for getting me going in this forum...was getting a bit overwhelmed with it all!! |
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Hmm Ken! I wonder if I am attracted to people because of their knowledge, and I am comfortable with their perspective because I can identify with it? And then I wonder at the comfort zone that can generate, and if my perspectives will shift - ie will I learn? I am not for a moment suggesting that you are thinking this, but for some it is a natural tendency to seek people with similar ideas because they validate your own? The filters we use when we seek people out because of their knowledge become terribly important don't they? xxx Wendy |
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Hi Wendy. Good commentary. I have observed that some people seek out validation; in hierarchical work situations, this may be akin to surrounding yourself with 'yes' people, at the extreme. And I would contend that sometimes we seek out contrary opinions, in order to test our own ideas. And sometimes we just seek out ideas, in the absence of our own. I also agree that the filters/biases we each possess will impact our choices, and recognition of them is a big step in the process. |
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Wendy...have you also been around a certain group in your life that actually has a negative impact on what you think?? everything at the moment in your life as far as gathering knowledge validates what you are thinking at that time. For some reason, when you break away from this, you begin to see things from a refreshed perspective and the people around you are different. So, what i think I am trying to get at, is that I agree that we gather those around us to validate our thoughts, but we don't always stay with them...I wonder why that is?? Lissa |
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I am not sure what you mean by "negative impact" Lissa. There are certainly those around us who challenge the way we think, which as Ken asserts can be a renewal rather than a problem. I guess, if I am thinking in terms of "negative", there do exist communities of practice, certainly an over-representation in education, with such a strong cultural belief that anybody else within that community with alternative beliefs is a heretic! But I think the effect is a negative impact on one's morale, ego, self-esteem rather than a negative impact on what one thinks This is the self-reinforcing structure I was referring to previously. When I reflect then upon the theory (or otherwise) of connectivism, I wonder about the social/organisational impact on the uptake of this way of learning and can understand better the sceptics. Often, the comfort zone is reiterating past practice, possibly even refining and improving it. Is this learning? What say you? xxx me |
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I think by 'negative', I was thinking along the lines of being able to seek and finding confirmation and justification of what you were thinking and agreed that this can be re-affirming and a positive thing, it can also be a negative thing or just plain wrong. Then again,this is the beauty of being able to connect, as long as you also have the ability to soundly look 'outside' this to enable you to increase your knowledge and awareness and to continue to learn. But may be this is a skill rather than the way connectivism works, I think this is makes some sort of sense. So, yes 'negative' refer to your point of view and I wouldn't want the network to be filtered, but I think as far as being a learner in the network, going to to simply re-affirm your position and knowledge is not want really desire either. |
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... not to be "imperialist" about theories of learning ... Hi Joanna you (and Kevin) are right. But it's not only a question of different cultures (not only a question of "imperialism"). For any didactive activity we must take into account the learning styles and the goals of people involved. teacker.blogspot.com |
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Hi Silvana! I agree with you on your three key points conditions for learning: To find the pressing need, to enable the will, ability and potential to make changes and to provide support. I am amazed by the speed in which you read and integrate the material read. i wish I were more like you. Thanks for sharing. See you around. Love: Maru |
| Re: What is connectivism: Personal Responsibility |
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Thanks Maru, I've chosen that story about Personal Responsibility also because I'm trying to identify myself with the mullah and...get a WIN instead of 'getting wet'. I certainly hope it won't be subordinated to the 'speed of the horse'. I've set a goal for this course: feeling confortable with connectivism myself as a learner and then think of my students' needs. Keep in touch, Silvana  P.S. I visited your blog, very interesting. |
| Re: What is connectivism: Personal Responsibility |
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Hi Silvana! Of course I would also like to be like the Mulla though right now I am subordinated still to the speed of the camel and not in a comfortable position. I know this will change and that it is part of my learning process. Thanks for visiting my blog. I have not posted yet my first impressions about connectivism, I lost access to it. I am curious: What did you find interesting? I post to reflect on how I got to where I am and to remember how to solve difficulties. Love: Maru |
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| I guess in this model, everyone has a responsibility - whether learning or teaching - anything shared in a connectivist learning network would have to be done with a real responsibility for sincerity and accuracy and truth. There are issues of trust here, too? |
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hi Kathryn But for me words like 'responsibility', 'accuracy' and especially 'truth' are indefinable; or if they are used they are defined by the context (culture, belief, background, opportunistic personal views...). Let us look at the 'truth' as stated by religious people, even if they refer to religious books, the interpretations and thus consequences drawn from that same book are both eclectic and numerous. The same with trust. What is trust if not the set of values a person is familiar with and thus if learning comes down to trust, we are most likely to learn something that fits (not completely but mostly) in our frame of reference build throughout our life? cheers Inge |
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Hi Inge, I like what you are saying - there is a danger in seeking "the right sources" for "the best-fit solutions" and therefore assuming that when the fit is correct, we then "know". I believe the theory is more about lifelong learning, with living connections and an evolutionary tree of knowledge - there is no end-point, often a lot of dead-ends as we backtrack to other sources, nodes of information to find a better fit. To me the analogy of evolution is ideal. The concept of environmental pressure and ecological experience determining our "lived knowledge" upon which we build. As an example, we could claim to be constructivist, and then find the fit is not all it should be, so we backtrack to find the point at which we believe our interpretation became linear, and look for other sources, other ideas, other solutions. Does that make sense? What I like about this analogy, is that we can continue to develop each current endpoint as our ecology changes, and create a convergence of them all to inform our current perspective. Regards, Wendy |
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"...everyone you connect with is an "informant"" Yes, that sounds right to me. Thanks for clarifying this.  I wonder how inexperienced learners learn how to flag good informants in a connectivist model.  |
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In my Searching the Internet course I teach for Con. Ed, I talk about finding out information about the author and the importance of doing a little digging, I think the criteria I set forth for those learners in my class apply: have they written about the issue before, does the information ring true (is what is being written about also something you have experienced), can you find two other sources that say the same thing (falling back on an investigative journalism model), do you have a history with the informant... Now certainly the waters get muddier when you have a conversation with someone who has no pedigree or history, that certainly doesn't rule out the idea that the informant is not reliable (to use spy terminology), just means that the information is unverifiable. |
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Hi Jon, Yes, this sounds perfectly correct, I remember learning about this when we first began using Internet resources. I have to think about the ideas of reliability and verifiability that you bring up in your second paragraph. I think the relationship between them is more necessary than you suggest? Later, |
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I think there is also a question about the time-frame in which the learner needs to acquire knowledge. If they need a genuine understanding, it is important, in my view, to hear the voices of those who disagree, or who are plain wrong. This helps us to be able to recognise the aspects which distinguish valid sources from less valid - and thus helps build our cognitive ability to learn. Of course, bootstrapping this is a potentially risky business, and so it helps to have some idea of how to critically analyse the sources we find - I see that as being the role of the formal education, whether through schooling or parenting. As for reliability/verifiability, I think that I can find a particular source reliable on a range of topics, without 'independent' verification - I read what they have to say, and critically appraise it. If they are frequently 'right', the reliability forms its own type of verification. I do not tend to trust sources which are deemed verified by many - wikipedia springs to mind, though I do not know how many here would consider it verified. Along with it, resources provided 'anonymously' through institutions have a tendency to show major flaws in my experience, including those which are provided in a peer-reviewed journal. The existing mechanisms of disseminating academic research are, in my view, merely a cut-down version of the trust network which can be formed through thoughtful application of the knowledge which can be gained by studying a networks responses to material. |
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re: Reliability/Verifiability These two concepts are from the vantage point of a person who has no experience with the internet and no knowledge of the subject matter. So, in that context, they have no real sense of "right". In the timeframe that I teach in, we don't have the luxury of time to dive in the deep waters, just enough time to get their feet wet. I would hope that critical analysis of information is something done at home - I learned it from punk rock records, perhaps not the most eloquent teacher, but at least I expanded my colloquial vocabulary as well.  In class, I talk a lot about wikipedia and how it is essentially trust based and we offer opinions about the pros and cons of trust based information. Interesting to see how people are politically aligned when we talk about information on the internet. |
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| Exposure, immersion, reference from others and a good dose of critical literacy, I suppose. Just like in real life. |
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Hello Kathryn, The question about the informant made me think a little. I am just trying to reply to some points as I read along. The messages accumulated a little on my inbox. So, someone might have addressed this issue in a different or better way. Let me try to express how I see everyone you connect to as an informant. I trully believe this is so, but what happens is that you have multiple connections in a connected world and the number connections help you decide and flag this or that information/informant as reliable. I think that the mere diversity and huge number of connections help you to make a decision on what to trust. This is, in my opinion, a better model than one where you have a single source of information or informant designated as reliable. You have no way of checking and comparing the information you have received. Kind regards from Brazil Jose Antonio |
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Hi Jose Antonio, This is, in my opinion, a better model than one where you have a single source of information or informant designated as reliable. You have no way of checking and comparing the information you have received. I agree this, though would also add that even in traditional models one informant would always be seen as bad or inefficient scholarship. Best, Kathryn |
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Hi Jenni a clear and concise thought provoking comment - The problem will be deciding which are "good" informants. For me the issue from a teacher/facilitator perspective is how to explicitly "teach" the key employability skill of discernment, where we all receive huge amounts of information from our connections and need to sort them into sensible meaning. For many of our students, it's also about recognising what is "valid' to meet the needs of the standards based curriculum. George mentions in his "New Structures" article the challenges of "validating information accuracy and determining quality" (page 4), albeit these challenges are somewhat further down the track after the connections have been made. |